The catapult loading system

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Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
Can I get you to describe how to "use the torso correctly", and how "then you can use leveraged hands"? Perhaps outline the body segments of how to use the torso correctly, and then what is actually leveraged in the hands or what the hands leverage against. :)

Sure ... watching games live on TV now (LSU) ... perhaps later.
 
Jan 6, 2009
6,587
113
Chehalis, Wa
1. If we could return to the hip angle for a moment - what plane of movement are we talking about? I think the original comment was "hips angled up" - as in left hip higher than right hip? or front of hips (belly button) higher than rear of hips (tailbone area). (Sagital plane and ??? plane?)

2. "Shoulders closed" - To me, it makes sense that the front shoulder flies open when there's not enough resistance/pull-back on the backside. The correction I try to use is "keep pulling back" - if you know the "effect" (front shoulder opening) isn't really a direct cause of "not keeping your shoulder in there" - then why even bother using a cue that STILL mentions the front shoulder?

Gags, What Homer Kelley was saying is that the back knee lowers and the hips tilt against the straight leg. I'll try to find a lower pitch as well, this is a high pitch, less tilting.

giphy.gif
 
Jan 6, 2009
6,587
113
Chehalis, Wa
I agree that it lacks the torso-engine usage ... but it was simple.

Staying with the Catapult loading system the spine engine and springy fascia in the torso power the swing. So it's the spine/torso engine that powers the swing. And really it's not to complicated. Joey Myers explains it very well.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
Can I get you to describe how to "use the torso correctly", and how "then you can use leveraged hands"? Perhaps outline the body segments of how to use the torso correctly, and then what is actually leveraged in the hands or what the hands leverage against. :)

Earlier in this thread you asked Shawn the following question … In a HL swing, do the hips, and shoulders turn forward at the same time?

While you didn’t specifically state it, the implication was of ‘horizontal’ rotation of the hips and ‘horizontal’ rotation of the shoulders.

I understand that you gave Shawn that direction to help clarify the sequence in terms of what occurs. You didn’t state that you personally think in terms of a ‘horizontal’ rotation model … more you were simply giving Shawn markers in terms of what to observe.

I think many people have a ‘horizontal’ based mentality. I say this way beyond the foolish notion of having a bat turn ‘horizontally level to the ground’. Many have a horizontal based mentality in terms of the hips and torso. I don’t know how many torso-unaware hitters you get, but I tend to get my fair share, and it is my opinion a large percentage of them struggle largely because of a horizontal based mentality in terms of using their torso.

Simply tilting the torso, and rotating the torso in a tilted orientation, is not the answer to torso usage.

For the sake of this discussion, let me paraphrase a kinematic description …

The hips will speed up and then slow down … as the hips slow down the shoulders will speed up … as the shoulders slow down the arms will speed up … as the arms slow down the wrists and barrel will speed up into impact. Blah blah blah … the conservation of momentum is in play. Everything is sort of catching up to itself.

Is that truly a good swing model? More importantly, is that really a good approach to developing hitters?

To me, the main engine of the swing does not have a primary feel of ‘horizontal’ rotation. Don’t get me wrong, I do believe in the generation of rotational energy … it is the ‘horizontal’ component that I’m not overly pleased with in terms of an emphasis.

Let me try it this way … is it possible to dumb down the above kinematic model for simpler usage by a hitter? I think it is. For example, is it necessary to think of the shoulder and hips as being two separate units that turn in a horizontal manner? Can one instead think in terms of an ‘up and out’ torso twist/rotation that can have the feel of one action?

You earlier wrote of the pelvis becoming tilted. For me personally, that resonated with my feel of what is taking place in the torso.

Starting from a decent ‘swing launch’ orientation … with the lead shoulder ‘down and in’, shoulders in an ‘attack angle’, etc. (you know what a good ‘swing launch’ orientation looks like) … I want the slack taken out of the torso. For me, that’s the job in terms of moving towards a swing launch orientation. I don’t need the torso ‘tight’ … in fact I don’t want the torso ‘tight’ … because I want the torso to react at a ‘twitch-like’ speed. You asked that I map this out … so let me describe where I want the slack taken out in the torso. I want the slack removed in two primary paths. 1) “from the rear arm pit to the rear hip”; 2) “from the bat handle … to the bottom-hand … along the lead-arm … through the lead shoulder (perhaps you would think more in terms of the floor of the intertubercular groove of the humerus to the lat) … and finally along the back, running from the lead shoulder to the rear hip”. There is actually a third path that I feel with my lead side obliques, but I am having a difficult time describing this and will pass on that for now.

With the slack out of the system there is a ‘connection’ so to speak from the bat, via the lead-arm, that connects/communicates with the rear hip.

To me, the swing is not about a ‘horizontal’ rotation of the hips. The feel for me is more of the torso being rotated ‘up and out’. TJ’s recent description of "working the rib cage up, and keeping it up", is something that I readily relate to. Check out the video below … not a perfect match, but you get the idea. The feel of torso rotation is not ‘horizontal’.



With the slack out of the torso, the initial movement of the torso rotation will have the lead-arm being pulled upon (the lead lat will become elevated). This is important. At this time the upper lead-arm will become aligned to one’s prediction of where the ball will be. The alignment of the lead arm is influenced by both the torso-engine and the hand-engine. The upper arm, in a sense, becomes a ‘gun site’. It is at this moment, when the lead-arm is being pulled upon, that one can apply what I term as ‘leveraged hands’ … one basically has a feel of the hands being used to rapidly align the barrel to the lead forearm. This action, of using the hands quickly, will speed up the body’s rotation … and for many, will give a sense of the body becoming rotated without actually trying to rotate.

dHdhoPB.gif


Here the lead-arm is being pulled upon by the action of the torso-engine. The upper lead-arm has been aligned, and entire lead-arm will try not to ‘fold’ (i.e., reduce the angle in the lead-arm) from 'hand usage' through to 'impact'. The hands, in a sense, have become leveraged and can become an active participant in terms of working the barrel.
 
May 3, 2014
2,149
83
WRT Bustos's swing above.

There is so much torso resistance (slack removed) created that as soon as the hands start turning the barrel the rear leg starts to turn forward and pull on the lead shoulder which pulls on the arm. This tilts the torso.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
WRT Bustos's swing above.

There is so much torso resistance (slack removed) created that as soon as the hands start turning the barrel the rear leg starts to turn forward and pull on the lead shoulder which pulls on the arm. This tilts the torso.

It is true that the hand usage is assistive, but that takes place as the torso- engine is pulling on the lead-arm.
 

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