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Thread: The catapult loading system

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    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudders Brudder View Post
    Guess that all kind of depends on which end of the chain (or whip) you're coaching to move first...bottom->up or top->down.
    I agree.

    The shoulder movement is initially resisted ... and that resistance is ultimately released.



    I hear people speak of "keeping the shoulders closed" ... and yet we often see MLB swings where their numbers are clearly visible from the opposite batter's box. Check out the #12 in the swing clip above. Their shoulders are clearly opened ... but I get that initially the opening is resisted ... the intent is not to power the swing directly by having the shoulders open, but indirectly in a manner that has them becoming opened up much more quickly than if they initiated the swing by trying to open up the shoulders with the shoulders.

    I've seen many kids directed to "keep the shoulders closed" ... and to resort to pushing. It's an easy solution to satisfy a barking coach/instructor/parent.

    The reality is that the shoulders do become opened ... and the opening of the shoulders pulls on the lead-arm/barrel ... and the faster this occurs, the faster the swing.


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  3. #22
    I can talk softball all day Mudders Brudder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    Excuse my deviation, what does everyone think the hips angled upward means? What is the purpose of the hips being angled upward going into contact? Myers thinks and uses Homer Kelly (I think that is his name, golfing machine) that the hips angles upward as the back knee is flexed and the front leg straightens, if that makes sense. He thinks this helps to get on plane with the pitch, so slightly up.
    Only way the hips aren't angled up is if the hitter is equally balanced on both legs, and the hips are then parallel to the ground...or the hitter is standing on the front leg with the shoulders out over the front of it (very unlikely), in which case the hips could technically angle down slightly (but again, very unlikely).

    So I agree with Myers on this part of his theory/teachings, but know nothing else of the rest of it, so this is also not an endorsement or refutation of it in general.
    Last edited by Mudders Brudder; 02-08-2019 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Grammar...

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  5. #23
    Certified softball maniac pattar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
    I agree.



    I've seen many kids directed to "keep the shoulders closed" ... and to resort to pushing. It's an easy solution to satisfy a barking coach/instructor/parent.
    Were they not pushing before, e.g. when the coach/instructor saw them opening up too early? A lot of coaches only start to harp on something when they see less than desirable results
    and if they were not pushing beforehand it would seem that the results would typically not warrant intervention.

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    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattar View Post
    Were they not pushing before, e.g. when the coach/instructor saw them opening up too early? A lot of coaches only start to harp on something when they see less than desirable results
    and if they were not pushing beforehand it would seem that the results would typically not warrant intervention.
    I've seen the instruction of "your opening up your front shoulder" on good swings and bad swings. It's a catch phrase for the ignorant IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
    I've seen the instruction of "your opening up your front shoulder" on good swings and bad swings. It's a catch phrase for the ignorant IMO.
    Agreed, that and you are "Not keeping your eyes/head on the ball"..

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    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    Excuse my deviation, what does everyone think the hips angled upward means? What is the purpose of the hips being angled upward going into contact? Myers thinks and uses Homer Kelly (I think that is his name, golfing machine) that the hips angles upward as the back knee is flexed and the front leg straightens, if that makes sense. He thinks this helps to get on plane with the pitch, so slightly up.
    Tjintx: "Work the rib cage up and keep it up."

    The above is not Tjintx's exact quote, but it is how I use it. I also use something similar, but find this works well for some.

  10. #27
    Certified softball maniac Shawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudders Brudder View Post
    Only way the hips aren't angled up is if the hitter is equally balanced on both legs, and the hips are then parallel to the ground...or the hitter is standing on the front leg with the shoulders out over the front of it (very unlikely), in which case the hips could technically angle down slightly (but again, very unlikely).

    So I agree with Myers on this part of his theory/teachings, but know nothing else of the rest of it, so this is also not an endorsement or refutation of it in general.
    Right, exactly what Homer Kelley says. That being the back knee is flexed against a straight front leg, so the back knee is lower then the front knee. The hips become angled upwards. Myers says the back knee acts as a rudder and sets the launch angle.

    I need to study it more still. He does say that where the front elbow goes the swing follows, so the swing plane isn't set solely with the lowerbody.
    "It is hard to fill a cup that is already full"

  11. #28
    Certified softball maniac pattar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
    Tjintx: "Work the rib cage up and keep it up."

    The above is not Tjintx's exact quote, but it is how I use it. I also use something similar, but find this works well for some.
    The only problem with this queue, if I am understanding it properly (and that is a big if), would be a kid starting to work their ribcage up e.g. tilting before the swing is actually launched..no?
    E.g. striding out with tilt e.g. ribcage working up..my DD does/did this (I haven't videotaped her in a while) e.g. she would work the ribcage up in her
    negative move and then stride out with it like that....What is your instruction to keep this from happening (assuming you agree that you don't want it to)
    Last edited by pattar; 02-08-2019 at 01:52 PM.

  12. #29
    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattar View Post
    The only problem with this queue would be a kid starting to work their ribcage up e.g. tilting before the swing is actually launched..no?
    E.g. striding out with tilt e.g. ribcage working up..my DD does/did this (I haven't videotaped her in a while) e.g. she would work the ribcage up in her
    negative move and then stride out with it like that....
    I should have been more clear.

    The portion of the rib cage I meant to speak of is on the lead side ... just above the lead flank.

    If you've taught your hitter to "rock the U", then the portion of the rib cage I was speaking of was 'down', and will become elevated (worked up) as the swing is launched.

    I don't recommend that a kid perform a 'move out' with level shoulders, or with the lead shoulder elevated above the rear shoulder. Basically ... "rock the U" during your 'move out'. I like to tack on FBC ... but that's my personal preference.

    [edited to add the following ...]

    Perhaps this GIF will help give a feel.


  13. #30
    Certified softball maniac pattar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post

    I don't recommend that a kid perform a 'move out' with level shoulders, or with the lead shoulder elevated above the rear shoulder. Basically ... "rock the U" during your 'move out'. I like to tack on FBC ... but that's my personal preference.
    That is what I figured.. I guess my question is if the kid is getting the proper resistance via FBC and then initiates the barrel turn properly, isn't the ribcage working up a no teach, e.g. it should occur naturally no?


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