Athletic posture while coiling

Shawn said:

Don't be fooled by where they start in their stance and where they end up at launch.

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I wasn't fooled, the still at launch depicted in the montage won't help obviously but the fact that he starts so upright will
mean that a video of the swing will show clearly his movement into an athletic ("over the ball") position which I thought would be interesting
for jryan to "study" since he asked for suggestions...

pattar said:

I wasn't fooled, the still at launch depicted in the montage won't help obviously but the fact that he starts so upright will
mean that a video of the swing will show clearly his movement into an athletic ("over the ball") position which I thought would be interesting
for jryan to "study" since he asked for suggestions...

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It was an "aha" moment realizing that even the hitters with tall postures were getting into a glute active mode before they swing. For years I'd see quad dominant kids with upright postures simply be compared to MLB hitters with tall postures. What most people would overlook was that the MLB players would all hinge, but the quad dominant athlete would not.

Several of the still images I collected required stepping through gif's to find the moment in which they hinged. There is another good teaching point in that the initial postures of most hitters is almost all "style" meanwhile most hitters flow into and through postures many of which are "absolutes". Recognize the true difference between style and absolutes is critical for helping hitters. So many hitting instructors around are wasting time trying to fix things that are predominantly style.

Thanks for the recommendation on Griffey though, he is a great example to refer back to. I thought I had Sr. in one of the images, but maybe he dropped off the page.

DRDRODD said:

Yes! I was waiting to see someone else but it never happened lol.... Thanks for the clarification..... While I was watching the video my first thought was quads all the way. So is the bending of the torso over the toes an indicator of anything? Is the intention of the test to try and only hinge the hips? I get the feeling that is what the test is for, instead of trying to squat?

My DD does an advanced stretching routine that is suggested to her by a program and when she gets measured by the PT she has to do tests like in the video.

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Sorry if this is a little scattered, I bounced around a lot...

The way the video guy hinges as he squats is that of a natural athlete. Now that I am tuned in, I can practically feel the tension building in his glutes as he lowers. Watch closely and you can see that he is getting tighter as he lowers. This is how it is for my glutes dominant wife, bending to 90 degrees is almost difficult, but apparently in a good way... Quad dominant people squat completely different, their chests will tend to be higher as they lower with quads. There is a distinct lack of tension as they lower down. Quad dom. people will often go all the way to 90 degrees with no tension or slowing. Some will just fall all the way down past 90 degrees. The quads get really inefficient as they approach 90 degrees and beyond.

The pace in which quad vs glute peeps lower down is intriguing. Glutes dominant people slow down as they approach 90 degrees, the posterior tension builds as they lower. Quad dom. people speed up as they approach 90 degrees, no posterior tension and the quads start to breakdown...they are literally bleeding energy when they try and hold 90 degrees...it's brutal. I'm sure a scatter plot of a study on wall squat times of kids would tell a good story.

The video is intended to be an assessment test to bin athletes one way or another. Basically if you aren't able to control your squat while keeping your knees from hitting the bench, you are probably using your quads to lower instead of glutes. Shin to ankle angles are distinct between glute/quad people.

Regarding hinge, quad dom. people can be taught to hinge and it is really a helpful learning, it has helped my back now that I pick things up correctly, but sadly until they correct the linkages, they will continue to use quads in raw athletic movements. Even more sad is that this is true even if they heavily focus on hinge and unhinge while practicing athletic movements... It is truly a problem that exceeds the conscious thought process. Pretty confident it is a full on neurological issue.

Thanks for the reply.... I am excited to dig into this more.


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jryan15

So you have used this for a year now, what is the outcome?

Shawn said:

jryan15

So you have used this for a year now, what is the outcome?

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Good and bad.

I'll start with the bad
We started really late, into sophomore year. The training process requires some level of additional running and sprinting work. For sprinters and basketball players, they get this out of their day to day practices, but for softball players, not so much running/sprinting. This means that we need to pull in extra practices and it has just been overwhelming. HS and travel practices were going 6 days a week, plus a pitching and a hitting work-outs each week, there just isn't hardly enough time to add in more workouts. When she was younger, 10 to 14u, we were doing all kinds of extra workouts from the drive mechanics thread, but after 16u, it just gets so busy.

Also injuries have hurt us. I documented some of it in this thread (link).

DD and I have been in a constant state of change since 2nd 12u (1st year of TB). We learned IR mechanics and spent an insane amount of time on drive mechanics. We found HI for hitting and spent a ton of time working on new hitting concepts. We've basically been in a rebuilding phase for 5 years, and DD is just running out of bandwidth for more new things. Her path has been very difficult. She's one of the kids who should have washed out a year or two ago. She was going to quit pitching at 16u, but got pulled back in to help her TB team. Through a lot of hard work and inspite of quad dominance, she's improved to be a contributing pitcher on varsity. All of this has come at a cost of time. I don't know a kid around who has logged more practice hours than her. HA came at a rough time to do more workouts.

Ok, the good
The good is the obvious improvement in jogging mechanics. Her feet still breakdown in sprinting and they still don't hold up in a full pitching drive mechanic.

When doing a run through with HA active, this has been the only time in her life, that she was able to get off the rubber by 3 o'clock.


Now that she is able to activate her feet and get a forward posture in her hitting stance, her glute is more responsive. In the last couple months, we are starting to actually see thoracic extension in her swing which is a direct result of functional glutes.

The main reason that I've been posting on all the glute stuff is to help parents find this quad dominance problem earlier. If we knew at 12u what we know now, I think things would be very different.

jryan15 said:

The main reason that I've been posting on all the glute stuff is to help parents find this quad dominance problem earlier. If we knew at 12u what we know now, I think things would be very different.

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I would take it one step further... I would suggest all athletes get a Preparticipation Physical Evaluation with a sports medicine specialist. Some Physical Therapists have training in that area. One of the biggest issues faced by DD's high school athletic program has been torn ACL's. Unfortunately several of those athletes have predispositions to being prone to such injuries. Discovering that early and taking steps to stabilize the area will not eliminate the chance of a tear occurring, but it will help. After DD started having some arm issues we decided to do this with her. She has been on a program for the last two years to improve her flexibility and strength in certain areas. I just wish we would have learned about this sooner.

FP26 said:

I would take it one step further... I would suggest all athletes get a Preparticipation Physical Evaluation with a sports medicine specialist. Some Physical Therapists have training in that area. One of the biggest issues faced by DD's high school athletic program has been torn ACL's. Unfortunately several of those athletes have predispositions to being prone to such injuries. Discovering that early and taking steps to stabilize the area will not eliminate the chance of a tear occurring, but it will help. After DD started having some arm issues we decided to do this with her. She has been on a program for the last two years to improve her flexibility and strength in certain areas. I just wish we would have learned about this sooner.

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Out of curiosity, I would guess this would be done post-puberty?

pattar said:

Out of curiosity, I would guess this would be done post-puberty?

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Good question, but that would be my guess as well. Too many things change when puberty hits... Your family doctor should be able to tell you. I know some high schools are starting to get involved in this type of stuff, but it hasn't been a priority at our high school.