Pre swing pattern and sequence

rdbass said:

'Many seem to coil early'. What do you mean by 'coil early' compared/comparing to what?

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Many are coiled early and then shift/weight, hold the coil. Not everyone falls under FBC. So I would say compared to the stride/shift action. Some are coiled and some are coiling.

Now, the stride/shift action can be considered as coiling. So even if there is no coiling action taken place in the body to the naked eye, the stride/shift can be considered as coiling.

Dave Hudgens was the first hitting coach that I know of who valued the "heel/toe" action of front foot and back foot. He was very successful with the Oakland A's. In fact, in his first few years, they improved in several statistical areas. I have some of his old stuff. I didn't keep track of his career but do know he also coached with Cleveland. When I see the heel on the front foot land, I want to see a bent front knee that is not already significantly straightening. I've somewhat used that cue when discussing what I seen in a swing often described as the "Elvis move." As many of you know I coach that action. Again, I know many of you don't like that analogy. Different strokes for different folks. Then again, I'm an ex expert.

Edited to add:

I recall that on another site, Yeager once posted on the heel/toe action and while not in total agreement with Hudgens did value that point.

rdbass said:

IMHO meaningless check points, toe touch and heel plant.
The 'check point' is the release of the stretch.

Good hitters don't coil and then hold coil.

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I will get back to the toe touch, but first let me say that you never stop the feeling of coiling. The feeling of coiling changes direction on it's own. It's an seamless action.

Well if you launch/release prior to one of these meaningless points it's going to be hard maximize your power swinging off of one front...just sayin...although I have a sinking feeling we are talking right past each other

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Rdbass,

I don't think one should stop coiling, I just think not all hitters FBC Ideally the coil shouldn't stop.

Shawn said:

I will get back to the toe touch, but first let me say that you never stop the feeling of coiling. The feeling of coiling changes direction on it's own. It's an seamless action.

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Let's hear what you have to say about 'toe touch'. I personally don't have hitters focus on 'toe touch'. What is your focus on 'toe touch'? What is it that you instruct regarding 'toe touch'?

Regarding the notion of 'never stop the feeling of coiling' ... I'm curious if you might mean something else. Exactly what is being 'coiled' in your feeling of 'coil'? Is it the rear leg ... the rear hip socket ... the core ... a coil running up the backside of the body? Is the feel you describe of never stopping the coil felt as tension in the inner rear thigh? Clarification would be appreciated.

Not sure of "coiling" with Bonds. Looks more like gather, stretch, release. Would the stretch equal FBC for Bonds?

I think this whole thing boils down to the word "start", and what it is one is talking about "starting". Is "start" the first initial movement of hitter, or is it when the hitter makes his/her first movement towards the incoming pitch?

You're going to see a lot of different pre-swing style/pattern movements being done before the actual address of the pitch or "sequence" starts. So trying to compare to different style/pattern starts is pretty much fruitless in getting an understanding of the far more important, and actual swing movements of the "sequence" IMO.

IOWs, don't worry so much in what or when a hitter does something in the moving rearward stages of their movements like Sweeny in the example if they have one (not all hitters do), but rather when they start their initial movement(s) forward, and timing the incoming pitch...like the second part of the clip when Sweeny, and ARod are moving forward almost identically. JMO...YMMV.

Shawn said:

I don't think one should stop coiling, I just think not all hitters FBC Ideally the coil shouldn't stop.

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I agree, with a caveat....

While I understand how FBC came about, and think it's fine in its general use...I have in the past said that "Forward With Coil" (FWC) is possibly a better cue or statement. It takes in account those who do coil in their rearward movement, and then move forward with that coil being maintained or tightened in the process. So as long as a hitter is moving "FWC" there shouldn't be a problem. It's those who coil but bleed it as they move forward that will constantly struggle...IMO.

I just 'threw' that out there if you dis-agree (not meant for any poster) that's fine. But, you may want to think about it.....
I'm glad some seemed to 'clean' up their originally thoughts that were posted.