Gary Ward

Tango said:

LOL. He has plenty of video but the pictures being used to make a point that isn't fair to his teachings. He has a very good track record. I do use some of his stuff but not much. 1. Not sure what he's talking about in the first picture. 2. Holding his shirt trying to calm the hands. Pete Inc. lead college baseball from that position with 40 plus home runs. 3. Touch system again. He used the positions as a teaching tool. Be fair to his teachings.

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Tango said:

Exactly, that's what made me bring him up. This is a site for fastpitch softball not MLB. If you want to use th pictures above, he is swinging a old Black Magic which was a -3 back in the day.

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pstein said:

Oh man, I remember the Black Magic... I tried to find one of them a few years ago, but didn't have luck. I've seen -5 and -8 for them, so I can't testify as to what Ward is really using.

With FP, NCAA is effectively the highest level. I have no issue saying that FP players can get away with a lower-level pattern than elite MLB players. I think that something like Mike Epstein's system is way more than adequate for FP, but I see no reason not to aspire to an elite pattern.

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pattar said:

Ok State was good in the 80's so to me it looks to me like he was a great recruiter of talented kids who didn't listen to their
coach

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Tango said:

Maybe so on the -5 and -8 but I think in the mid 80's the rule was -3. I'm not sure about that but that's what everyone used in my area. Shorty after that it changed. It may not have been a rule. High level swings and strike outs are the question for fastpitch. Also, Fastpitch is such a speed game compared to sitting back on the back leg and not getting out of the box. If you have study Ward he will tell you he isn't worried about bombs, just clear the fence. I'm not saying either way is correct. I started the thread off with just thinking.

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Spartans21 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pnrAPFumZ8&t=326s

There is a link to the video I pulled those gifs. I think it's a total crock that you have to change your swing based on your arm length.

Pattar has a great point, there is much more to winning than swing mechanics. I'm sure he was a great coach who did a lot of things right. That being said, I
think he missed the target on swing mechanics.

I mentioned it in a earlier thread, I used to get pissed when I first came on this site and users on here would dispute a Division 1 coach's statements about the swing. I used to think who the hell do these guys think they are, a D1 coach knows more then all of these guys! I was incorrect. You really can't go wrong if you study a particular coach's theory and see if what he is teaching matches Bonds, Pujols, Manny, Agon, etc........

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Tango said:

Who's pissed? I like talking ball and getting opinions. I think it's funny when someone is closed minded and thinks their way is the only way. Ward doesn't teach a different swing but uses the touch system to teach relaxation in the hands. He doesn't ask them to hit from the touch position although some do. Very similar to Epstien. I'm not sure who taught it first.

Pattar is correct! I have friend that could possibly be the top JUCO baseball coach in the nation and if you ask him what he teaches, he'll tell you I recruit guys that can play and tweak them. Kinda my philosophy but can't recruit.

I think Wards mechanics go good with slappers and speed players. I wouldn't teach Bustos to slap.

I have been away from baseball for awhile. I could have as many clients as I can handle. Really only work with 5 students occasionally for free. 1. 11 year old girl and we basically use HI. 2. 11 year old girl and we use a little Epstien and HI combined. 3. 16 year old girl that flys out twice a year to see Epstien (D1). I work with her once a month. 4. 9 year old boy that is figuring it out. 5. 14 year old boy that has used Baseball Rebellion as his bible. Working on calming him down.

A question I asked awhile back and got no responses. Could Rose, Boggs, and Tony G hit like Donaldson and be elite?

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Spartans21 said:

Good, I like to talk hitting as well. I said I was the one who used to get pissed!

I do believe there is one high level pattern. All of the greats have different styles but the absolutes are the same. I went through a lot of different hitting systems and had conversations with many different coaches and none of them can consistently put people into the pattern......Not saying HI is the only way, but show me another. I would definitely give it a look, but it's not Gary Ward, or Parker, or Epstein, or Tewks, or Baseball Rebellion.......

I agree slapping is a different animal.

I'm confused as to your final question. Donaldson is the one who is elite and the others aren't?

P.S. - I was an Epstein guy for years! I thought I had found the answer......However I no longer feel that way......

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