Turning the barrel

FiveFrameSwing said:

Very true.

The action of binding the lead arm as shown in the demonstration, in a full swing performed at game like speed, would be painful ... and over time potentially damaging.

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To this I just want to say that you really have no idea how this swing would feel at game speed. The lead arm would not have a chance to bind because there would be no stopping action taking place in game like speed swing.

And yes, I poo poo the Hanson Principle because you cannot replicate a game like speed swing focusing on slow motion video.

I don't know what the Hanson principle is and I am not sure I care. I appreciate everybody's help and opinion. Yes I am swinging the bat, I am trying to learn, and I don't things as literally as my DD. For instance if you tell a young girl to play closer to the line, they will ask "how close?". When I show my DD this video, she will try to duplicate this action in her game swing. FiveFrames understands me and my concern well. I'm not seeing this type of action with Chamberlain or Romero.. I do see their front elbow work it's way up to mouth level, but not immediately like in the instruction

You are getting mired in the visual of a stop swing vs a game like speed swing. Take a stop swing as close to the one shown a few times. Think of the cue turn the knob to the nose as you do this. Then take a game like speed swing trying the same thing. Much different.

High level softball swing. Doesn't get much cleaner than this.....

The Hanson Principle isn't an unquestioned scientific principle, it's one guy's suggestion about how to use video to help hitters. It seems to have been very useful in the past 10 years as people have tried to help hitters they can't see in person but can view clips of over the Internet. Seems some are suggesting a welcome corollary to this "principle" might be that it's important to understand the feels behind slow-motion clips, ie, swing to duplicate, and that slow-motion clips like still images need interpretation and can be open to bad interpretations. That all seems well within the intended spirit of the original Hanson Principle.

One step further, the idea of comparing exaggerated swing cue segments vs. full game swings also seems to go against the spirit of the Hanson Principle, much as Spartans21 described in his post. The particular videos of the cues/backchain of very perpendicular swing angles shown as partial clips here also have that player's full swings included, if I recall. It would be much more useful I would think to compare those full swings to the swings of the very best and to see if the cues led to improved full swings than to compare stop/slow swing segments to live swings of the very best.

So I'll repeat ....

I personally believe that TM is after a particular action. I believe what Julray is looking for is what that action is and where is that particular action seen in the clips of the pros that he looks at.

Buttermaker said:

To this I just want to say that you really have no idea how this swing would feel at game speed. The lead arm would not have a chance to bind because there would be no stopping action taking place in game like speed swing.

And yes, I poo poo the Hanson Principle because you cannot replicate a game like speed swing focusing on slow motion video.

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Below is further instruction that leads to this lead arm binding action. It seems to be instructed with intent. Yet this isn't what takes place in the swings of the best.



Again, I suspect TM is after a particular action. Seems to be in-line with the cue to turn the knob up to one's nose.

If that's what you wish to do, then have at it. I personally pass on this drill. If it works for you then that's all that really matters.

Funny for me to read these various ideas. How would one apply Epstein's ideas about the weather vane in some of these examples? Would these be over exaggerations of weather vanning?

Maybe julray can reach out to TM.

FiveFrameSwing said:

So I'll repeat ....

I personally believe that TM is after a particular action. I believe what Julray is looking for is what that action is and where is that particular action seen in the clips of the pros that he looks at.

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Spartans21 said:

High level softball swing. Doesn't get much cleaner than this.....

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It is a beautiful swing. But what really turns the barrel, hands, forearms or back folding under.... this swing reminds me of what Justin Stone describes in his continuous pinch drill. Also I am not seeing the lead elbow action in this clip as illustrated in the previous Instructor clips.

Do you guys have any idea how trying to copy this swing would lead to casting