Josh Donaldson pioneer?

FiveFrameSwing · Apr 8, 2017

4 girl's dad said:
I heard the UT coach say her players needed to swing down to create grounders and stop popping up. She obviously isn't aware of what causes pop ups. Old school mentality.

It comes down to what is meant by swinging down.

Make no mistake about it ... good hitters attack from the top. Their top-hand is higher at swing initiation than it is at impact .... they are in a sense swinging down.

That said, teaching the barrel to swing down beyond impact is not what we see from many professional hitters ... and if that is what is meant by 'swing down', then that is not necessarily a high-level attribute.

Eric F · Apr 8, 2017

625ender said:
Everyday I see "coaches" who have never played past coach pitch baseball giving instructions on how to hit a simple fastball low and away. It's laughable and a major disservice to the children that are listening

I tend to judge the quality of a coach on the material they are teaching, and their ability to effectively communicate those ideas to their players/students, not the level they played. Playing at a high level is no guarantee that they understand correct mechanics, or are good at teaching those concepts. Playing and teaching are two different skill sets. Having one is no guarantee of having the other.

625ender · Apr 8, 2017

I had to Google Mike candrea. I had no idea who he was until now or his credentials. There's a huge difference between a coach and a manager. Anyone can manage the best ball players in a five County area and especially when recruiting Nationwide. I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, but I really don't. I've never heard him coach. A coach is a teacher. A coach has the ability to understand exactly what's going through a player's head and help them work through it. Anyone can run drills or substitute players. Anyone can learn cloclock management. How many times have you seen Taco Joe weighing in at 4 bills making a 5 gallon bucket look like a thimble and calling pitches? He's there because I never had the opportunity to win a trophy playing Dungeons and Dragons and eating Cheetos. Then after the game Taco Joe takes credit for calling great pitches or a discussion his with the pitcher the reason she lost. She wasn't hitting her spots. that's not coaching.

Playing at a higher level and understanding the game at a higher level is critical for teaching the game as kids get older. Being able to walk a player through being down two strikes to someone who's owned them on the outside corner. You can only coach what's between the ears by having been there before. If you listen to The Donaldson interview you will hear him Clearly say that he turned away his own coach and work through his problems himself. He had learned the game and learn how to make Corrections. Clearly along the road he found someone who I understood how to help him through that process.

It means a lot when a player can see a coach grab shin guards from the car and teach them how to block or teach them how to speed up there pop time instead of referring them to a clinic, private lessons, or even worse a video. You earn respect when you do that as well as hit a series of balls 350 feet away and ask him to go chase them. It's no different than going to war and having someone from West Point tell you what to do or having a war dog who's done 10 tours in the Infantry

FP26 · Apr 8, 2017

FiveFrameSwing said:
Key comment:
"Timing is timing my forward move towards the baseball and my hands going back at the same time."

Comparison of an early JD swing with a more recent swing. The more recent swing is a better match to his quote...

Work=wins · Apr 9, 2017

FiveFrameSwing said:
Playing the game and coaching the game are different.

Some of the most successful coaches out there have not played the game.

Mike Candrea didn't play the game, yet has been a successful softball coach.

Bottom line ... learn the game ... and keep learning about the game. Far too often I've seen former players become coaches that assume they already know the game and don't take the time to learn the game in more depth.

While being a former player is a plus, it's no excuse for not diving in and continuing to learn.

This is exactly what my DD team(s) have been going through the last few seasons. Our team(s) have been getting ex college players as coaches that are fresh outta college. From what I'm seeing they are very green when it comes to coaching young ladies 16/18u. The new coaches don't seem to get it. Just like a player, new coaches need to start at the bottom and work their way up. Just like the rest of us. Happens the same way every time. New Coach acts like she has 20 yrs experience but her inexperience shows out on the field.But mostly shows because they dont know how to relate to the players. NEW coaches have to learn that skill ( it is a skill) which probably the most important part of coaching. Keeping/getting your players to perform at their best most of the time.

And to my dismay not one has given any clue on decent hitting mechanics. A lot of linear cues mixed in with "turn" . These were D1 players. One even played in the PAC 12 and was quite a player. Player and coach 2 DIFFERENT WORLDS. Hopefully this doesn't sound like rant. Just my 2...

Eric F · Apr 9, 2017

625ender said:
It means a lot when a player can see a coach grab shin guards from the car and teach them how to block or teach them how to speed up there pop time instead of referring them to a clinic, private lessons, or even worse a video.

In your opinion...Since I have never caught a single pitch or blocked a single ball in the dirt, in a game situation, does that immediately rule me out as being able to effectively teach those skills?

YOCOACH · Apr 9, 2017

Eric F said:
In your opinion...Since I have never caught a single pitch or blocked a single ball in the dirt, in a game situation, does that immediately rule me out as being able to effectively teach those skills?

And I have, and to this day continue to do so. Granted, it's in a FP church/beer league. I hadn't done it before my DD became interested in catching and ordered the NECC DVD. Personally, I don't think that makes me any better of a coach than you or anyone else. It still comes down to being able to communicate a point or skill effectively in multiple ways since not everyone learns the same way. The only reason I taught myself all of the skills presented on the video was simply because I was asked to instruct both boys and girls and IME, boys are more visual than girls although some of them are also. That makes me no better than any other coach that continues to learn to communicate information about any mechanics, skills, or game strategy because I'd bet that, had they thought of it, they'd have done the same thing.

coach james · Apr 10, 2017

fiveframeswing said:
playing the game and coaching the game are different.

Some of the most successful coaches out there have not played the game.

Mike candrea didn't play the game, yet has been a successful softball coach.

bottom line ... Learn the game ... And keep learning about the game. far too often i've seen former players become coaches that assume they already know the game and don't take the time to learn the game in more depth.

While being a former player is a plus, it's no excuse for not diving in and continuing to learn.

...amen!...

Greenmonsters · Apr 10, 2017

625ender said:
I had to Google Mike candrea. I had no idea who he was until now or his credentials. There's a huge difference between a coach and a manager. Anyone can manage the best ball players in a five County area and especially when recruiting Nationwide. I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, but I really don't. I've never heard him coach. A coach is a teacher. A coach has the ability to understand exactly what's going through a player's head and help them work through it. Anyone can run drills or substitute players. Anyone can learn cloclock management. How many times have you seen Taco Joe weighing in at 4 bills making a 5 gallon bucket look like a thimble and calling pitches? He's there because I never had the opportunity to win a trophy playing Dungeons and Dragons and eating Cheetos. Then after the game Taco Joe takes credit for calling great pitches or a discussion his with the pitcher the reason she lost. She wasn't hitting her spots. that's not coaching.

Playing at a higher level and understanding the game at a higher level is critical for teaching the game as kids get older. Being able to walk a player through being down two strikes to someone who's owned them on the outside corner. You can only coach what's between the ears by having been there before. If you listen to The Donaldson interview you will hear him Clearly say that he turned away his own coach and work through his problems himself. He had learned the game and learn how to make Corrections. Clearly along the road he found someone who I understood how to help him through that process.

It means a lot when a player can see a coach grab shin guards from the car and teach them how to block or teach them how to speed up there pop time instead of referring them to a clinic, private lessons, or even worse a video. You earn respect when you do that as well as hit a series of balls 350 feet away and ask him to go chase them. It's no different than going to war and having someone from West Point tell you what to do or having a war dog who's done 10 tours in the Infantry

No real argument from me, but I'm curious to know how long you have been coaching girl's Fastpitch?

_MIA_ · Apr 10, 2017

625ender said:
I had to Google Mike candrea. I had no idea who he was until now or his credentials. There's a huge difference between a coach and a manager. Anyone can manage the best ball players in a five County area and especially when recruiting Nationwide. I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, but I really don't. I've never heard him coach. A coach is a teacher. A coach has the ability to understand exactly what's going through a player's head and help them work through it. Anyone can run drills or substitute players. Anyone can learn cloclock management. How many times have you seen Taco Joe weighing in at 4 bills making a 5 gallon bucket look like a thimble and calling pitches? He's there because I never had the opportunity to win a trophy playing Dungeons and Dragons and eating Cheetos. Then after the game Taco Joe takes credit for calling great pitches or a discussion his with the pitcher the reason she lost. She wasn't hitting her spots. that's not coaching.

Playing at a higher level and understanding the game at a higher level is critical for teaching the game as kids get older. Being able to walk a player through being down two strikes to someone who's owned them on the outside corner. You can only coach what's between the ears by having been there before. If you listen to The Donaldson interview you will hear him Clearly say that he turned away his own coach and work through his problems himself. He had learned the game and learn how to make Corrections. Clearly along the road he found someone who I understood how to help him through that process.

It means a lot when a player can see a coach grab shin guards from the car and teach them how to block or teach them how to speed up there pop time instead of referring them to a clinic, private lessons, or even worse a video. You earn respect when you do that as well as hit a series of balls 350 feet away and ask him to go chase them. It's no different than going to war and having someone from West Point tell you what to do or having a war dog who's done 10 tours in the Infantry

I don't know, I played college baseball and to be honest I have learned more hitting, and teaching hitting, reading this board the last year then I did in my previous 30+ years of baseball experience. Not one person till I got to college ever said a word to me about hitting mechanics
because I always hit. The instruction my college coach told me was to land with a more closed foot which probably was just a band-aid for something else I was doing wrong which he never bothered to mention. Not saying this is the case for everybody, and in recent years college and above players may have much better instruction regarding hitting hence they may be better equipped to teach hitting then I ever was.

Josh Donaldson pioneer?

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