Lag ... and how it pertains to the swing.

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Feb 16, 2015
933
43
South East
Thanks Knight. I don't really see what Teacherman talks about in the corner video happening in a MLB swing. I see something closer to what the LAG guy was talking about in the beginning of the clip. Where he is talking about weight shift setting the wrists. When he does an example of it and starts to shift his weight and what I would consider loading of the hands (he calls it setting the wrists) to me it looks like he is passing through or in the the part of his sequence that reflects or resembles what some call a corner in a MLB swing. I was just checking if anyone else sees what I believe I am seeing... I guess you do not :)
 

rdbass

It wasn't me.
Jun 5, 2010
9,131
83
Not here.
Teacherman says to lock the forearms and wrists but the lag video says keep your hands and wrists loose. Are they discussing different ideas?
Are they discussing different ideas

Yes.....Golf and hitting a baseball/softball.:p

2 Different discussions going on in this thread. Lag & Corner.

The corner is established when the rear hip socket coils rearward and reaches it's range of motion limit against the ball of the femur, which is internally rotating.

The amount of movement is not great. Maybe 30 degrees or so. But this 'offset' is where the true separation in a swing and throw exists. It is very specific. Very deep inside the rear hip ball and socket joint.

Most people define separation as the differnce between the shoulder line and the hip line. This is far too general in nature and does not require use of the proper muscles to attain. Shoulder to hip separation is too 'big' and 'sloppy' compared to hip socket separation. It creates separation at the waist, not deep in the hip socket.
Establishing the corner is very important. But maintaining it, stretching against it, and using it to launch the swing are critical parts of the high level swing.

STRETCHING AROUND THE CORNER:

The high level swing is a release of stretch that was established during the loading process. This stretch is accomplished by stretching against the corner. The corner was established by coiling the rear hip rearward over/around the ball of the femur. You then stretch against the corner by 'pulling back' with your lower back and retracting the scapula moving it toward the spine and clamping it down. Basically, you pull rearward with your back muscles to help the hip maintain it's coiled position around the ball of the femur. While this 'pulling back' is happening, the rear leg is attempting to internally rotate. So you have a 'fight' going on between the hip, lower back, and scapula, which are all pulling rearward against the rear leg, which is trying to turn forward.

We refer to this action as the rag wring. If you had a rag in your hands and were to wring it out, the top hand would turn one way against the bottom hand turning the other way. In hitting, the hip, lower back and scapula are represented by the top hand. The rear leg is represented by the bottom hand.

The rag wring action is the 'stretching around the corner'.

USING THE CORNER:

Establishing the corner, and stretching around the corner are critical elements of the swing. But they are worthless unless you learn how to use the corner to launch the swing. Most amateur hitters do not use stretch to create a release of their swing. Instead, they use brute force to swing the bat. In other words, when they load, they are simply looking for more distance over which to 'move back' or 'coil', so they have a larger range of motion to 'move forward' or 'uncoil'. The more distance they create the more speed they reach. The problem with that is they never get up to speed until they are far out front. This creates all kinds of problems when facing quality pitching.

What professional hitters do is different. They learn to create stretch and then release the stretch, making their swing sudden and compact. They do this by using the corner to unload. Or, said differently, they unload from behind the corner, not in front of it. Amateurs turn to align with the ball first, and in so doing bleed their corner, then they swing. Professionals stretch around the corner, maintain that stretch until 'go', then unload from behind the corner and allow the unload itself to turn them into the ball.

They do that by turning the barrel rearward.

If you get stretched around the corner, and then push the bat forward to swing, you have given up the benefit of the stretch that you created. To push the bat forward you must first know where to push it. You first must know where you expect contact to be made. So, you first must turn to align with the ball, and in the process lose your corner, and lose the stretch that you created, then push forward to swing to the expected contact point. That is what amateurs do.

Professional hitters establish a corner, stretch around the corner, and then unload the barrel rearward. The weight and direction of the barrel launched rearward INCREASES the stretch. The barrel continues rearward until it reaches roughly horizontal at which time the point of no return is reached. The stretch increases as the barrel arcs rearward but at/near horizonal the stretch is suddenly lost. The rearward resistance that the speed and direction the barrel was offering, helping the hip and lower back and scap stretch against the rear leg, is suddenly overcome by the rear leg. When the bat gets flat/horizontal the resistance goes to zero and everything is suddenly yanked forward and directed into the ball.

By sending the barrel rearward the hitter 'used the corner to unload'. He didn't bleed the corner then swing. He unloaded around behind the corner, allowed the barrel to continue into a rearward arc. When it reaches horizontal the corner yanks the barrel forward. He used the stretch around the corner to power his swing.

No brute force swing can match the power of the the high level 'corner produced' swing. But most importantly, no brute force swing can get up to speed as quickly nor have the late adjustability which is so important as you advance.

Establish the corner, stretch around the corner, then use the corner to launch the swing. A whip develops that produces the suddenness of launch that only the greats achieve.
 
Last edited:
Feb 16, 2015
933
43
South East
Yes.....Golf and hitting a baseball/softball.:p

2 Different discussions going on in this thread. Lag & Corner.

Thanks for the clarification of corner RDB, apparently I have been thinking of LAG as what is considered to be a corner...... I would like to know what you think of LAG as it pertains to a baseball/softball swing?
 
Jun 18, 2010
2,624
38
Donnie B's description of Bat Lag:

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Jul 26, 2016
108
18
https://rotaryswing.com/quickquiz/assets/landing-pages/bonus-video-1-dollar-membership?video=165920808&utm_source=MadMimi&utm_medium=email&utm_content=The+quickest+way+to+add+20+yards+to+your+tee+shot&utm_campaign=20170404_m138508810_4+step+lag+builder&utm_term=4-step-lag-builder_jpg_3F1491318413

Points worthy of understanding.

  • Importance of soft/loose wrists. How and why the top-hand wrist becomes 'bent' backwards.
    Importance of not loading the hands prematurely.
    Importance of relaxing/loosening/softening the rear side.
    Importance of not starting the swing by rotating the upper torso first.

Every coach talks about loose hands and it makes sense but is that true? Both ruth and Williams talked about a very firm grip.
 

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