Side Toss

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Oct 10, 2011
1,572
38
Pacific Northwest
Yes, everyone has the right dislike and see the need for improvement with this 14u girl. Lets see what happens with her next lesson, as this was her first 3 minutes of the first lesson,lol.

Gm , she hits inside out very well, i will get some recorded with the change, and inside set her stance and work the front side. along with the head.
LEXALL-0.00.01.20-S.jpg

LEXALL-0.00.01.57-S.jpg

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I see lots to work besides those things, but a beast in the making.

Powerless effort? side toss Shawn?
 
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shaker1

Softball Junkie
Dec 4, 2014
894
18
On a bucket
Would rather do front toss, but there are some advantages of side toss for me. At home we are limited on space, front toss is out of the question, mixing it up from tee work, timing the toss-hitting it at the top of the arch or the bottom, you can get a good visual of the degree of the barrel. There is even a video of Mike Candrea changing the position of the batter to simulate inside, outside.
https://youtu.be/leDfLWdAZQk. All in all, not a bad thing.
 
Sep 17, 2009
1,637
83
Mann, didn't mean to be critical of this GIRL, just curious about her swing so I could try to help other girls I see swinging in this pattern.

Love how hard you work with the players you coach and instruct.
 
Jul 16, 2013
4,659
113
Pennsylvania
ETA - re side toss, I find it very effective when very close (i.e., in the oppo batter's box) and can put the ball exactly where I want - just have to make sure to not get too close and get the hand out of the way quickly!

Looks like what you are calling "side toss" is what I call "soft toss". I don't have an issue with doing this from close range (oppo batter's box), but I do it more for a warm up than actually teaching anything from it. What I don't like is having players toss for other players. They typically don't put the ball in the right place when they toss.
 
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Jul 16, 2013
4,659
113
Pennsylvania
Greenmonster, care to discuss coil or lack of , as if i was on mars. There might be a time delay on my part.

i see her into her rear hip and front, with some coil. with flex and extension. I see the knee come with her cept for once, which means she has some clamping going on.

also i understand she is not hL. but hits bombs

She definitely gets a lot of flex in the hip area (hip hinge), but I would personally like to see her get more flex in her knees from the start. The back knee is a bit upright.

mann - for the record, I do see a lot of potential here. There is much more good than bad. And I know that you will get her where she needs to be.
 
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Oct 3, 2011
3,478
113
Right Here For Now
We have new HS coaches here. Open gym the girls are sidetossed and then they are given advise and instruction on how to "fix" their swing.

Flaws such as letting go of the bat. bad timing. Long swings. moving hands. and 'swing level" advise.

The girls struggle with side toss.

one girl that struggles with side toss.
FURY-2017
https://mann.smugmug.com/FURY-2017/

Notice her back ankle. !4 years old anyone have a fix on this? and i would like to voice my concerns of side toss, whats your's?


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Uhmmm...late to the party and didn't read any of the posts so if this was said already, I apologize. 1) Many on here will disparage side toss. I, on the other hand, believe it is a useful tool for a timing mechanism. Too many players time the initialization of their swing/load off of the pitcher's motion...especially at the 13U and 14U level where the fastball dominates with better pitchers In other words, they will start their swing when the pitcher's arm is in the 12 o'clock position or there abouts. This makes them susceptible to off-speed pitches and especially change-ups

IMO, the player needs to time 2 things. #1 is the swing. In other words from the time they have finished loading/initialization of the swing to the time the bat contacts the actual ball. #2 is the speed of the ball. A truly great hitter will do one of two things IMO. They will judge the speed of the ball and will either start their load earlier/ later depending upon the speed of the pitch or take longer to get into the loaded/swing initialization position on an off-speed pitch. Either one, IMO, is correct. However IME, the hitters that take longer to load have higher BA. Again, JMHO and no definitive proof on my part.

As far as the back ankle is concerned,, I see no problem...even when it rolls over after contact. The golf swing and HL baseball/ softball swing have many things in common. If you watch most of the PGA top Drivers for distance, the ankle rollover is a common phenomenon...if not an almost must. By the same token, most of the MLB top hitters do this as well. So what's there to fix? Yes her back foot is a tad open but it allows her to clear her hips quicker for her swing. So what? It may not be technically correct by many standards but if she hits the ball well, which is what I'm seeing from the gifs you posted, again, who cares? Always remember, it's about results. IF she hits for average and power, leave her alone.
 
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rdbass

It wasn't me.
Jun 5, 2010
9,131
83
Not here.
Side Toss nor a ball on a tee can be used effectively as drills for timing. Hitting a moving ball from game distance and close to game speed that best replicates game situation is the only way to develop your 'timing mechanics'. It's also the only way to 'build' your hitting library data base. Balls don't come at a batter sideways,behind, or from above. I understand that's not always possible(front toss live pitching).
 
Jan 7, 2014
972
0
Western New York
So there's no timing element to side toss? Bull...a moving object trying to hit a moving object requires the element of timing.

...and how about rather than just tossing it in there, you put some spin on the ball and have them identify the pitch...

...and how about using side toss to start to develop a players ambient vision? Hell, I use the tee to start to develop ambient vision when they are 9 years old.

...and side toss is a great way to watch all sorts of stuff in the swing...things you can't see from front toss from behind a screen 20' away...things like lunging, not loading\false loading, too much movement in the frontal plane, etc.

Side toss is not the be all end all...but to poo poo it's value is short sighted IMO...

Carry on...CP
 
Jul 16, 2013
4,659
113
Pennsylvania
In respect to the one hand release... I realize that there are varying opinions on this. One dislike is the potential to pull one hand off too early, and I do think this young lady falls into that category. I would suggest giving her the thought of showing her numbers to the opposite batter's box during her follow thru. How far a hitter will actually turn will depend on their personal range of motion and flexibility, but that thought may help her stay on a bit longer. Junior is a good example of this.


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