Bat Drag (Sort of)
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- Sep 22, 2013
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rdbass: What do you suggest for teaching how to use the hands properly?
Greenmonsters
Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
When working with this hitter on hand path/action, whether off a tee, front toss, or machine, only work on knee high or letter high balls/pitches on the corners of the plate, favoring outside 3:1. IMO, this will promote proper tilt, rotation, extension and and a better sense of barrel awareness without specifically focussing on these issues - essentially you're forcing the body to adjust to put the barrel where it needs to be.
Just my 2 cents...That's pretty much what this hitters doing now. This hitter isn't using her hands, other than holding onto the bat and dragging it forward. I would focus on teaching this hitter how to use her hands correctly.
I agree that she need to learn how to use her hands, but I disagree with the statement re: "That's pretty much what this hitters doing now."
She's currently firing her shoulders forward, while dropping her hands below and behind her shoulder and rolling her wrist.
The "bat on shoulder" swing will not fix all of her problems, however, it can be used as a drill to get her out of habit of dropping the hands and rolling wrist.
I disagree with you....disagreeing with me.
I disagree 'firing her shoulders' isn't what I see. I see hips sliding forward into a front leg pivot point. Her shoulders along with her front side is spinning around her front leg pivot point as her weight shifts before her swing.
This hitters hands don't drop down on their own but, go down as her rear shoulder tilts down. Just not in the best barrel path I would like to see.
This hitter never even 'breaks' her wrist. This would be considered maintain the 'hinge angle'. Again not ideal.
Sorry, your suggestion is a band aid.
This hitter needs a complete break down and rebuild of the swing. Again JMHO.
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I disagree with you....disagreeing with me.
I disagree 'firing her shoulders' isn't what I see. I see hips sliding forward into a front leg pivot point. Her shoulders along with her front side is spinning around her front leg pivot point as her weight shifts before her swing.
This hitters hands don't drop down on their own but, go down as her rear shoulder tilts down. Just not in the best barrel path I would like to see.
This hitter never even 'breaks' her wrist. This would be considered maintain the 'hinge angle'. Again not ideal.
Sorry, your suggestion is a band aid.
This hitter needs a complete break down and rebuild of the swing. Again JMHO.
WHAT????? How dare you disagree with me disagreeing with you!!!
Re: her shoulders - I think we're talking symantics here. Everything from the hips up is moving forward during the swing. After she starts her swing, her head moves forward a significant amount (most visible in the up close, slo-mo gif above), and that is what I was getting at.
Again, I agree that she needs a complete rebuild of her swing, and noted above that the drill I mentioned wouldn't fix all of her problems. It is a band-aid, but sometimes you need to stop the bleeding first and then move on to the next step.
Back to what I originally stated I disagreed with you on. I'm still not seeing how the drill I suggested is similar to what the girl is already doing. I had to use the google machine to find a quick video showing the drill I mentioned. Skip forward to about 2:35 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg50QPUvPb0. Can you explain how that looks similar?
Again, I agree that this is a band-aid, and a rebuild is needed.
I agree with what Rdbass is saying 100%. TDS has a good suggestion too, though I don't think the gif demo is the best example necessarily, would like to see more tip with that turn
Here's where I would start...with grip and how to use her hands.
First, show her how to get her grip out in her fingertips and out of her palms. This is very important.
Next, have her hold the bat right in front of her face, elbows loose and making a downward "V", and with that new grip and "windshield wipe" left and then right using just her hands/wrists.
Then, move her hands to her back shoulder and have her -- while keeping her hands right at her rear shoulder -- pivot the bat forward and back over her shoulder, these windshield wipes would make an X across her other ones.
Then, have her put those two moves together, still at her back shoulder, and turn it into a *barrel turn* -- again AT her back shoulder. Stop the reach-back arm bar. The turn is AT her shoulder. Pivot her the handle around her hands to deliver the barrel.
Then, teach her how the front elbow works. It doesn't "turn behind her" (the chicken wing that she does now). Instead use the cue of "slam the V". At set up her V is open downward. At barrel turn the open end of the V turns to the pitcher (the front elbow rides up the ramp is another good cue) and the barrel moves to contact position. If she turns her shoulders and hips open while she does that she should be in a good contact position -- wish I had a pic of contact position, maybe some else does.
This video can be a little repetitive, but it shows how the "swing" is basically a simple barrel turn at the shoulder, a pivot around the hands, that delivers the barrel to contact. It can be an eye-opener for kids who think "swing" means swing with their arms around their body. The hands don't push forward -- as Tewks shows in his "before" swing" and they don't reach backward as this hitter does in her swing. See 1:10 -- the swing is a hand pivot point, pivot and it's DONE.
Seeing and doing this will help break her of her current swing images and feels. It's why I like to start with hands. SO much can go wrong if the hands aren't working right. I agree with Rdbass that bat on the shoulder drills won't get her there and in fact will exacerbate the problem for THIS hitter. Once she understands how the hands work, you can start working from the ground up to get her sequence, separation and lower body explosion working. But first fix the hands.
Here's where I would start...with grip and how to use her hands.
First, show her how to get her grip out in her fingertips and out of her palms. This is very important.
Next, have her hold the bat right in front of her face, elbows loose and making a downward "V", and with that new grip and "windshield wipe" left and then right using just her hands/wrists.
Then, move her hands to her back shoulder and have her -- while keeping her hands right at her rear shoulder -- pivot the bat forward and back over her shoulder, these windshield wipes would make an X across her other ones.
Then, have her put those two moves together, still at her back shoulder, and turn it into a *barrel turn* -- again AT her back shoulder. Stop the reach-back arm bar. The turn is AT her shoulder. Pivot her the handle around her hands to deliver the barrel.
Then, teach her how the front elbow works. It doesn't "turn behind her" (the chicken wing that she does now). Instead use the cue of "slam the V". At set up her V is open downward. At barrel turn the open end of the V turns to the pitcher (the front elbow rides up the ramp is another good cue) and the barrel moves to contact position. If she turns her shoulders and hips open while she does that she should be in a good contact position -- wish I had a pic of contact position, maybe some else does.
This video can be a little repetitive, but it shows how the "swing" is basically a simple barrel turn at the shoulder, a pivot around the hands, that delivers the barrel to contact. It can be an eye-opener for kids who think "swing" means swing with their arms around their body. The hands don't push forward -- as Tewks shows in his "before" swing" and they don't reach backward as this hitter does in her swing. See 1:10 -- the swing is a hand pivot point, pivot and it's DONE.
Seeing and doing this will help break her of her current swing images and feels. It's why I like to start with hands. SO much can go wrong if the hands aren't working right. I agree with Rdbass that bat on the shoulder drills won't get her there and in fact will exacerbate the problem for THIS hitter. Once she understands how the hands work, you can start working from the ground up to get her sequence, separation and lower body explosion working. But first fix the hands.
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WHAT????? How dare you disagree with me disagreeing with you!!!
Re: her shoulders - I think we're talking symantics here. Everything from the hips up is moving forward during the swing. After she starts her swing, her head moves forward a significant amount (most visible in the up close, slo-mo gif above), and that is what I was getting at.
Again, I agree that she needs a complete rebuild of her swing, and noted above that the drill I mentioned wouldn't fix all of her problems. It is a band-aid, but sometimes you need to stop the bleeding first and then move on to the next step.
Back to what I originally stated I disagreed with you on. I'm still not seeing how the drill I suggested is similar to what the girl is already doing. I had to use the google machine to find a quick video showing the drill I mentioned. Skip forward to about 2:35 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg50QPUvPb0. Can you explain how that looks similar?
Again, I agree that this is a band-aid, and a rebuild is needed.
I didn't take 'rest the bat on her shoulder/neck' as a drill but, OK. After seeing the drill you posted I understand now where you are coming from. I didn't hear the instructor mention the hands turning the barrel at all during the drill other than 'keeping the hands ahead of the elbow'. He does tell them to 'all I would have to do is turn my shoulders' Sure that may help cure 'Bat drag' that this hitters has now. I still believe this hitter would be back to square one in learning how to use her hands correctly. I only speak from experience. I had my DD doing the Deltoid drill when she was younger. Only to find out that my DD needs to re-learn the proper hitting sequence which involves using the hands to deliver the barrel to the ball.
I would be fine if that drill you posted had this example in it with laying the bat on the shoulder.
See Stanton on left :
Stanton uses his hands to turn the barrel with the bat laying on his shoulder to start.
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I didn't take 'rest the bat on her shoulder/neck' as a drill but, OK. After seeing the drill you posted I understand now where you are coming from. I didn't hear the instructor mention the hands turning the barrel at all during the drill other than 'keeping the hands ahead of the elbow'. He does tell them to 'all I would have to do is turn my shoulders' Sure that may help cure 'Bat drag' that this hitters has now. I still believe this hitter would be back to square one in learning how to use her hands correctly. I only speak from experience. I had my DD doing the Deltoid drill when she was younger. Only to find out that my DD needs to re-learn the proper hitting sequence which involves using the hands to deliver the barrel to the ball.
I would be fine if that drill you posted had this example in it with laying the bat on the shoulder.
See Stanton on left :
Ya, the Stanton gifs are definitely a great example. I'm not sure what the instructor says in the video. I'm at work without my headphones, so I just grabbed the first video that showed what I was trying to convey. Not sure what the Deltoid drill is, I'll have to look it up.
Torque Drill, Epstein drills. The instructor was an Epstein instructor in your video.
