Critique / Help Series of Swings

Starting to get the hang of it, but needs to tighten up the back arm - still too much external rotation.

nightsSB, I have a question for you. Why did her bat head come below the plane of the ball at 2:15? The bat should never come below the plane of the ball in fastpitch. Which other swing does this correlate too?

yes she is reaching with the stride leg. The leg should never set down, TOE TOUCH, straight.

MTS said:

Steve Huff, how in the heck do you teach hitting by making them worry about pants seams lining up with the back elbow and you can see that in live motion I think you are trying to sap the athleticism out of your hitters by making them worry about what position to be in at a certain time and not just trying to turn the barrel into the ball hitting is a movement not a series of positions and I have a question for you if you hit a high pitch by using #24's mechanics can you feel the swing arc tighten up or do you just throw your hands high while trying to make sure you stay on top of the ball making sure your elbow lines up with your hip and pants seam.

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Word matter, and the English language is by no means the largest or most complete language in the world, though colorful and effective. Connection, linearly or as I say vertically lined up with the pant seam does not mean touching it. It can even be that the hand is directly out away from the elbow. If you look at the first girls photo above, you can see her hand is above her elbow at her hip. But her hands have dropped to go after perhaps a low pitch. In some cases the hand visually covers up the elbow.

Secondly I stated that in cases of a pitch inside with heat, the hands have to get ahead of the elbow. You can see it in your own .gifs, yet you seem to deny it. You can see in almost every one of your gifs, that when the back elbow gets to the batter's hip (pant seam) the hands are directly vertically lined up with the back elbow. Are you denying it. Please don't because you will be playing the fool! The elbow does not have to touch, but on some pitches middle in the hips actually vacate to get out of the way of that elbow and allow the bat angle to go down after the pitch. The front forearm and bat always maintain that consistent straight alignment, so what happens to the back elbow. The arm "box" doesn't change, so the hip vacates.

You mention this predicament for #24, Cabrera. Well look at the middle gif where he hits a high fastball etc inside. Where does his elbow go? And as I have said before, his hands get well ahead of the elbow to allow his hands to get inside.

1) Hands go to the ball.
2) Bat head stays in connection with the shoulder till back elbow gets to the hip (outside and low outside pitches, a big bat wrap changes this perspective)
3) Palm up, palm down.
4) Extend through the ball
5) Inside or outside, the fundamental swing does not change.

Now I am saying that the hands moving forward, BECAUSE of hip rotation is not a movement. The bat head is still connected to the shoulder until the hip. So that is a very simple movement! Hip rotation! And then the bat is whipped at the ball. Launched at the ball, the wrists snap through the ball. The barrel is thrown at the ball. Call it what you want. There are actually only two movements here, and your conjecture is more complex, and you accuse me of complicating things. YET, not one of your gifs shows something different except the falling over lawn bowling gif.

Your stab at me is bogus let alone your theory! Show me a gif where the batter's back elbow does not come to the hip. And he can't look fooled.

Post #1, nightsSB daughter, elbow comes to the hip, hand elbow stacked.
#5 MountiSB - elbows to the hip though connection is broken by the extension during swing in photos.
#6 MTS, your girls elbow comes to the hip. I can't see if they are stacked correctly or not but I think so. She has a very poor grip position and that top hand causes her wrists to roll early, and also seems to pull her bat head down getting under even waist high pitches. So I am not impressed in the least with what I see her. She does some things right though. That over-rotated grip does one thing to help your theory. The grip forces the bat to sweep a little into the hitting zone (launching I guess). You are robbing her of power!
#12, 13 - Sue Enquist. Well she and I don't know what we are talking about, though we get paid big bucks to do it.
#18 - all three connection at the hip; the Florida girl demonstrates getting the hands ahead of elbow on inside heat.
#28 -rdbass gifs, show connection at the hip for hitter #12 and #9. Great gifs.
#50 - MTS gif. You can see that Kemp connects until the hip, and the elbow goes to the hip.
#53 rdbass - shows both principles clearly I am talking about. Second gif shows hands getting ahead of elbow to pull the ball. First gif, hitter is almost at the end of his extension when he makes contact. Probably fooled a little.
#63 same two issues again
#72 MTS connection to hip.
#75 rdbass - connection to the hip.
#82 MTS - connection to the hip.
#93 MTS - both issues I have discussed, even the golfer.
#94 MTS - Posey connection to the hip.
#101 MTS - connection to the hip.
#104 MTS - connection to the hip.
Jeter unloads his bat wrap early, but elbow comes to hip. His hands are loaded deeper than normal, with no wrap, but a long linear movement to the ball. Less power!
#107 - Show me a video where their elbows don't come to their hip. That does NOT mean touching it. Your premise shows naivete.
#117 - nightsSB, her elbow and bat connects until the hip.

Now let me make something clear. I approve of the drills done correctly. However, not for inside pitches. For outside pitches and learning to hit the ball deeper, I say YEAH! But the swing does not vary, only the core orientation. You accuse me of making rules and this and that point attached to the big toe, etc. But creating different swings for different pitches is more complex. Adding the "launch" is more complex.

That isolation drill is good for outside pitches.

Now, where in these gifs do you show hitters whose back arm, arm box, hands and grip change during the swing up to the hip? How many gifs to the bats move far away from the shoulder. Jeter's hands already start far away, more than 99%, so that does not constitute launch! Where do those relationships change during the swing up to the connection at the hip? If this is all good, start it behind the head. Any early release of the wrists hurts power.

Steve Huff said:

nightsSB, I have a question for you. Why did her bat head come below the plane of the ball at 2:15? The bat should never come below the plane of the ball in fastpitch. Which other swing does this correlate too?

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steve:

Why did her bat head come below the plane of the ball at 2:15? The bat should never come below the plane of the ball in fastpitch.

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Then steve:

The contact point did not come below the pitch plane, only the tip of the bat

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So your going to be one that changes your statements...strawman.
Knightsb

You haven't changed. You are still just as venomous and nasty.

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Steve, I really am a nice guy....just wanted to get the point that this is a thread to help a dad, not talk about you. If you have GOOD advice for the girl...have at it. If you want to stroke your ego or debate that there should be a difference between a fast pitch swing and a high level baseball swing, then start a new thread. I played several years of men's fast pitch and still play baseball, I will join you there. If you want to just talk about yourself, then start a thread on that.

Also, the rear hip should not be that far rotated back. Need to tighten that up.

MTS said:

Starting to get the hang of it, but needs to tighten up the back arm - still too much external rotation.

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Steve Huff said:

#5 MountiSB - elbows to the hip though connection is broken by the extension during swing in photos.

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Huh? I don't understand a word of this.

Steve Huff said:

nightsSB, I have a question for you. Why did her bat head come below the plane of the ball at 2:15? The bat should never come below the plane of the ball in fastpitch. Which other swing does this correlate too?

yes she is reaching with the stride leg. The leg should never set down, TOE TOUCH, straight.

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Steve, @2:15 that was a miss hit. We were working on hips first then shoulders & hands. She was focusing on eliminating the "gate swing" that was commented on earlier in the thread.



We will be working on the stride this weekend and will post some video next week.

MountieSB said:

Huh? I don't understand a word of this.

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Abbreviated. Connection is the whole time the bat maintains that orientation to the back shoulder. Connection ends at the hip. Once the elbow gets to the hip, the extension and wrist snap simultaneously occur. In other words, bat "lag" ends. In those photos, the connection is broken or ends because of the extension. Until then, there is no "launch" because the relationship of the bat to the hands, the arm(s) box or power box as some call it, and the back shoulder is consistent and does not modify. The bat stays connected. To have "launch" you would have to do what Jeter did in his gif, which is throw the bat head back away from his shoulder, which was done with a wrist movement, and then the hands pushed forward into the hitting zone, which MTS said should not happen. See it for yourself. Jeter's swing is more similar to Vlad Guerrero than most hitters. It worked for them, but that is not what anyone would consider teaching.

"Steve, @2:15 that was a miss hit. We were working on hips first then shoulders & hands. She was focusing on eliminating the "gate swing" that was commented on earlier in the thread."

OK, that was not a slam, but a question as to if there was a full view to see what happened up top. Her front leg, foot, back foot, and back knee under hip are all great! Personally I think your daughter has a lot more going for her than the average college recruit. They have talent, or experience, but a lot of the time they have compromised skills. She has a couple of fixable issues. So I was curious what happened up top. You can see the contact point of the bat below the ball and I was just curious, because it came back up through the zone. That happens a lot when hitters drop their hands or tuck their back elbow, leading the hands. So I was wondering if that caused it.

I think I have it figured out! I see it in the clip below and redhotcoaches clip of your daughter's swing. That tee is way out front for an outside pitch position. That is causing her to lean a lot to get the fat part of the bat on the ball. That probably caused the miss hit and to cut under the ball. She would not have to lean that much on an inside pitch, hit out in front. That tee position doesn't help her.