Critique / Help Series of Swings

Do you have hitting clips of Amanda Freed that you could post?

I mean a swing clip without all the missing frames.

Steve Huff, you claim there is nothing new here and you write like you understand my opinions but how many teach the exact opposite....heck even your poster child Vogelbach doesn't swing like Kemp does....he externally rotates his rear humerus, lifts his hands and then pushes his hands....shifts to his front foot and then swings...out front....but he is big, strong kid so lets copy him...and when you say the inside pitch needs to be hit out front - I agree....never said otherwise....

Here is the big pusher....



Compared to the guys that turn the barrel deep:




These guys are turning the barrel deep - all they have do on the inside pitch is not go as deep as the pitch dictates they get the barrel around quicker....but they are not pushing their hands....these guys can swing off their rear foot...Vogelbach needs his front foot to launch his swing....

There is a really good test - if you can slow down the Vogelbach clip - see where his barrel enters the hitting zone compared to Kinsler, Kemp, Cabrera, Pujols etc....their barrels starts to enter the hitting zone behind their rear hip...

Here is the famous manny clip - where does hit barrel enter the hitting zone?



Girls/women can certainly learn to swing the bat this way - but they have been force fed squish the bug, push your hands, throw your hands, shift then swing, lift your hands to stay on top and swing down and deltoid swings....

Here is another guy who turns it deep...

fpthrives said:

Do you have hitting clips of Amanda Freed that you could post?

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I doubt it. She did play RF for the US Olympic team in 2 Olympics, so there might be some there. She was more noted for pitching at UCLA in her college days. I didn't even know she could play OF that well.

MTS said:

Steve Huff, you claim there is nothing new here and you write like you understand my opinions but how many teach the exact opposite....heck even your poster child Vogelbach doesn't swing like Kemp does....he externally rotates his rear humerus, lifts his hands and then pushes his hands....shifts to his front foot and then swings...out front....but he is big, strong kid so lets copy him...and when you say the inside pitch needs to be hit out front - I agree....never said otherwise....

Here is the big pusher....

Compared to the guys that turn the barrel deep:

These guys are turning the barrel deep - all they have do on the inside pitch is not go as deep as the pitch dictates they get the barrel around quicker....but they are not pushing their hands....these guys can swing off their rear foot...Vogelbach needs his front foot to launch his swing....

There is a really good test - if you can slow down the Vogelbach clip - see where his barrel enters the hitting zone compared to Kinsler, Kemp, Cabrera, Pujols etc....their barrels starts to enter the hitting zone behind their rear hip...

Here is the famous manny clip - where does hit barrel enter the hitting zone?

Girls/women can certainly learn to swing the bat this way - but they have been force fed squish the bug, push your hands, throw your hands, shift then swing, lift your hands to stay on top and swing down and deltoid swings....

Click to expand...

As well as I can see it, every swing but the last, which I would not call a swing, the hands beat the elbow to connection.
Secondly, that last swing proves nothing but that he was fooled on the pitch. It resembles a golf swing, bat extends back, as it does on low pitches to get the bat head under the ball. Nothing new here!
I don't swing like Pujols, and Pujols doesn't swing like Vogelsbach. They are different bodies. I did not advocate swinging like Vogelsbach. I said his hands beat his elbow to the pant seam. So do Cabrerra's and Kinsler's. It is a hitting adjustment that good hitters make to hit inside speed. That was all my point.

As far as creating a different swing for every pitch location in the zone, I say baloney. The basics are the same, inside or outside. Pitch height creates adjustment of hands, shoulders and head, etc. All you have to do is rotate your belly button 15-20 degrees to RF and you have the same swing. But appearances are that your bat head drops or extends further back behind the back foot. In a side view, move your camera angle 15-20 degrees to the left and the swing looks identical and you can hit for 90-95% of the power you have pulling the ball.

In all my years of coaching college and internationally, I have never heard someone try to teach as a nuanced skill what happens naturally. It is great that you teach hitting deep. So do I, and so does every one else that I know. I like drills that emphasize it. I think soft toss and tee drills are too mundane for the purpose of feel good "success". Vary the approach to simulated game conditions. Great! I just haven't learned or observed anything in your gifs which surprises me, or makes me reconsider basic fundamentals that already exist. I just think sometimes coaches want to believe it is more complicated than it is.

In all three of these gifs, the bat head does, what the back elbow and hands tell it to do. They are all three short compact swings. For your bat turn, the hands would have to change the relationship of the elbow and hands to the bat head. If they stay the same, there is not bat turn. You can't do something with the bat without changing the relationship of the hands, and ultimately the back elbow.

You misunderstand - you launch the bat the same way every swing....from there it is the adjustment needed....there are no nuances - you learn to launch the bat rearward to go forward....

Could Vlad make this adjustment if he was swinging if was worried about the position of connection?



But, look at his barrel and where it enters the zone....he is not swinging down on it because his shoulders are not controlling the swing...

MTS said:

Here is another guy who turns it deep...

Click to expand...

Here is another example of looking for something that doesn't exist! You say he turns his bat deep. In concept the "idealistic" bat lag at connection would be the bat staying at the shoulder. Even on a pitch on the outer half if properly approached. The sun shadows are from 03:00. I don't need the sun shadow to see this, but at 0:09 of the video the elbow is moving to the hip, "connection" at the hip, and the sun shadow is right on the back of his shoulder, where in the ideal "theory" it should be. He is staying connected at the shoulder at that point. It is literally text book! He is not rotating to hit an inside pitch. In fact when his barrel, as you say, "turns deep", his core is facing RF. The pitch is on the outer half. Next, his hands get ahead of his elbow (at the hip). In other words, he breaks connection as if it is an inside pitch. It is like an inside out swing. His back foot and knee are pointed at RF just before contact, and at contact, his shoulders are not square to the pitcher. His back hip does not come square under him either. Shoulders and hips come square after contact.

Why am I saying this? Because it wasn't a perfect swing, of which there are a low percentage in baseball, and perhaps even more in softball at game speed. He was fooled a little, but because he has more talent than you or me, he squared up the ball. The only lesson I see here, is that his connection at the shoulder was great. It broke down at the hip. And he still drove the ball.

Welcome back Steve, long time no see. How's the health since the accident? How was your time with softball overseas?

I guess in slow motion it is easy to see things you want to see like the bat staying at the shoulder. My question would be why does it? Your answer might be that he doesn't move his hands and then quickly snaps the bat around when he decides on a location. My answer would be that the barrel is being launched rearward as he is reading location....

Here is another example of looking for something that doesn't exist!

Click to expand...

My answer to your above quote is that you are only capable of seeing what you want to see....it exists in every high level hitter....you just have to swing a bat with an open mind....

Steve Huff said:

Here is another example of looking for something that doesn't exist! You say he turns his bat deep. In concept the "idealistic" bat lag at connection would be the bat staying at the shoulder. Even on a pitch on the outer half if properly approached. The sun shadows are from 03:00. I don't need the sun shadow to see this, but at 0:09 of the video the elbow is moving to the hip, "connection" at the hip, and the sun shadow is right on the back of his shoulder, where in the ideal "theory" it should be. He is staying connected at the shoulder at that point. It is literally text book! He is not rotating to hit an inside pitch. In fact when his barrel, as you say, "turns deep", his core is facing RF. The pitch is on the outer half. Next, his hands get ahead of his elbow (at the hip). In other words, he breaks connection as if it is an inside pitch. It is like an inside out swing. His back foot and knee are pointed at RF just before contact, and at contact, his shoulders are not square to the pitcher. His back hip does not come square under him either. Shoulders and hips come square after contact.

Why am I saying this? Because it wasn't a perfect swing, of which there are a low percentage in baseball, and perhaps even more in softball at game speed. He was fooled a little, but because he has more talent than you or me, he squared up the ball. The only lesson I see here, is that his connection at the shoulder was great. It broke down at the hip. And he still drove the ball.

Click to expand...