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Sometimes you have to use whatever works to make the girls understand or even if they don't understand execute properly but I am probably with HYP on this one. I think this is originally how squish the bug got started everyone knew what to do and if they squished the bug their hip might fire, now when using the knee you have a much better chance of getting the right result since you are one bone and joint closer but I think it could still lead to problems.
 

HYP

Nov 17, 2012
427
0
The cue is meant to get the hitters to work the rear knee under as you say....when you give the cue work the rear knee under most hitters (in my experience) collapse because they process this cue as "Spin the back foot as my knee works under." Ultimately, we are looking for them to get the upper leg to IR without spinning on the back foot....as directly as possible....to transfer weight as they swing....I have not seen a girl not turn her hips using this cue....and ball exit speed increases in one swing...

As I said in another post somewhat quoting you - if you can think of everything in straight lines then the arcs will happen....

I use this same cue for throwing and have even applied it to windmill....

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3447eki.gif

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CaitlinBenji2005UCLA_SView.gif

No problems. I was just giving my opinion of what can happen with fire the knee. I am sure it works for some. The Harper video is perfect.
 
May 16, 2010
1,086
38
I understand what you are saying but I personally do not like the cue fire the rear knee. IMO, the rear knee is not fired. It is working under. The rear leg is working to turn forward and the rear hip is resisting. This will sit you down and the rear knee works under the rear hip. This gives control of launch.

Firing the rear knee to me means I move back and then move the rear knee forward with force. Kind of like coiling to uncoil. This, IMO will create slop or slack.

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Does Bonds fire his rear knee or does it just work under to force the hips open? Chipper has a more aggressive rear knee but he starts in a different place then Bonds. He is more upright and his rear knee doesn't get as far under before the swing gets to go. So when the swing is launched his knee has farther to travel which looks like firing. Same move but from a different stance.

Whatever works for you and your students is fine. I just don't use the cue fire the rear knee.

JMHO

I agree with you. The back knee only needs to stay bent. Absolutely no force comes from the knee, and thinking about it other than keeping it bent, does nothing. Fire the hip is a more correct cue.
 
R

RayR

Guest
Just for everyone reading - it is a cue....the knee is moved by other muscles....

but I disagree very strongly with this statement:

The back knee only needs to stay bent.

Clearly, anyone can see and then mimic the players below to know that they are not just keeping the knee bent and that to make the leg move like that - the upper leg needs to internally rotate....

CaitlinBenji2005UCLA_SView.gif
Ruggiano_rearleg.gif
3447eki.gif
ASFBPause.gif


I agree with you. The back knee only needs to stay bent. Absolutely no force comes from the knee, and thinking about it other than keeping it bent, does nothing. Fire the hip is a more correct cue.
 
Oct 25, 2009
3,345
48
Just for everyone reading - it is a cue....the knee is moved by other muscles....

but I disagree very strongly with this statement:



Clearly, anyone can see and then mimic the players below to know that they are not just keeping the knee bent and that to make the leg move like that - the upper leg needs to internally rotate....

CaitlinBenji2005UCLA_SView.gif
Ruggiano_rearleg.gif
3447eki.gif
ASFBPause.gif

The upper rear leg does internally rotate because of the action of the hip. They are a "joint" effort (no pun intended). It's the hip, though, that should be the focus. But caution should be used when the hip is the cue because they have a tendency to want to actively "spin" the hip instead of the hip rotating as a result of the hip "firing".
 

redhotcoach

Out on good behavior
May 8, 2009
4,706
38
The upper rear leg does internally rotate because of the action of the hip. They are a "joint" effort (no pun intended). It's the hip, though, that should be the focus. But caution should be used when the hip is the cue because they have a tendency to want to actively "spin" the hip instead of the hip rotating as a result of the hip "firing".

I disagree. But am interested in what you think the hip does to cause the leg ir, and what causes the hip to do any action.
 
Oct 25, 2009
3,345
48
I disagree. But am interested in what you think the hip does to cause the leg ir, and what causes the hip to do any action.

If you try to fire your hip towards the pitch the rear leg will follow the hip. If your upper leg does not turn you will, in effect, be doing somewhat of a split.

You can rotate the rear leg without moving the hip to some degree but if you fire (rotate) the hip the upper leg will move along with it, internally rotating to help unrestrict the hip.

The hip, of course, has it's own muscles, and those muscles combined with the core muscles create a very explosive rotation (not spin). The core muscles (inner abs?) are very involved here. The rear hamstring is also heavily involved (and usually heavily neglected during conditioning) with the hip firing.
 
R

RayR

Guest
I used to think that as well....dead end.....whether you are throwing or hitting - the rear upper leg internally rotates without any help from the hips....



The upper rear leg does internally rotate because of the action of the hip. They are a "joint" effort (no pun intended). It's the hip, though, that should be the focus. But caution should be used when the hip is the cue because they have a tendency to want to actively "spin" the hip instead of the hip rotating as a result of the hip "firing".
 
Oct 25, 2009
3,345
48
I used to think that as well....dead end.....whether you are throwing or hitting - the rear upper leg internally rotates without any help from the hips....

With throwing (or pitching) I agree with you. The rear leg plays a major role in the thrusting power of the throw. But with hitting you can't have that same powerful thrust because you have to have better control to be able to adjust to pitches. The hip action is what allows that adjustment while still creating a powerful forward move.

IOW, when I throw, it's all out. All I'm wanting is as much power on the throw as possible; I don't have to stop or slow down or adjust, I just totally unload.
 
Last edited:
R

RayR

Guest
If you fire the rear hip - you get a circular move of the hips....the rear leg IR's and creates a directional turn of the hips....a crease shown in the groin of most hitters, pitchers and throwers is your visual marker...

If you are talking about adjustment - how can you adjust if you are rotating the hips? Once your eyes determine where the ball will be - your rear leg IR's in that direction....meaning inside pitch - IR of the rear leg to the max.....outside pitch less IR....the degree of IR will turn the hips as needed....



If you try to fire your hip towards the pitch the rear leg will follow the hip. If your upper leg does not turn you will, in effect, be doing somewhat of a split.

You can rotate the rear leg without moving the hip to some degree but if you fire (rotate) the hip the upper leg will move along with it, internally rotating to help unrestrict the hip.

The hip, of course, has it's own muscles, and those muscles combined with the core muscles create a very explosive rotation (not spin). The core muscles (inner abs?) are very involved here. The rear hamstring is also heavily involved (and usually heavily neglected during conditioning) with the hip firing.
 

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