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Thread: Stride or no stride

  1. #91
    Softball Junkie julray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichK View Post
    On the tee swing, the 'push up' is due to how she uses her front leg. All lead legs 'block/push back' to some extent. Her lead leg overdoes it, causing her to pop up like that. That happens in part because she loads onto and rotates around her front leg rather than having a pivot point at her rear hip, which would have instead allowed her front hip to open/clear better and the lead leg block/push to accelerate/assist her rotation rather than having it make her pop up like that. If you ever see a hitters front foot 'roll over' that's a front leg block/push back being overcome by aggressive rotation/thrust driven around the rear hip

    Looks like a good athlete, shows aggressive intent. The 'rear leg' thrust or snap video clip that everyone was making fun of with TM/Rich on another thread would be useful for her to help her find and feel how the rear hip pivot point works. Regardless of whether you buy into all of TM's teachings, having the axis of rotation at the rear hip vs. front hip is a good thing.
    Thanks I really do appreciate your comments. TM's methods make me a little nervous but I do understand and see the validity in what you are saying. Ideally I would like her to develop a neutral axis for rotation. Maybe by focusing on the rear hip, that will happen. I have a question for you though.. do you think her lead leg is overcooking the block/push back.. or is it the back leg/knee/foot driving towards it and forcing it to lockup early?
    Last edited by julray; 07-26-2018 at 03:52 PM.

  2. #92
    Certified softball maniac Shawn's Avatar
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    Julray,

    The only thing I focus on with the front leg is to contract the thigh quickly. It creates a sharp contraction very quickly. It happens quickly, the front leg block/contract.
    "It is hard to fill a cup that is already full"

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    Softball Junkie julray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    Julray,

    The only thing I focus on with the front leg is to contract the thigh quickly. It creates a sharp contraction very quickly. It happens quickly, the front leg block/contract.
    I hear ya Shawn and thank you very much

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    Certified softball maniac Shawn's Avatar
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    I should have said upper/quad. It's relaxed and then contracts very quickly/violently. Of course the backside sort of forces the lead leg to contract. I teach the rotational point to start at the back hip, and to start with arching the lower back. Done correctly the front leg contracts automatically.
    "It is hard to fill a cup that is already full"

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    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julray View Post
    This is a very poor example of a game swing for her... I asked her what her approach was with this swing. She told me that initially she thought it was a ball which ended up with her pulling the trigger a little late. However, you will easily see what my biggest concern is, compare load to contact and see how much her head has elevated. I know there are other issues as well.. ie getting to far over her back foot, but I have to prioritize here because she has a big tournament this weekend. I need to keep her head/body on plane through out the swing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpbDFfFYR5Y
    Swing resembles all-back, all-forward ... push.

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    Certified softball maniac RichK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julray View Post
    Thanks I really do appreciate your comments. TM's methods make me a little nervous but I do understand and see the validity in what you are saying. Ideally I would like her to develop a neutral axis for rotation. Maybe by focusing on the rear hip, that will happen. I have a question for you though.. do you think her lead leg is overcooking the block/push back.. or is it the back leg/knee/foot driving towards it and forcing it to lockup early?
    I'll stick with what I said. If the pivot point was in the rear hip the front leg would work properly and the hips would clear more easily and you'd get explosive rotation vs. the pop up. Phrases like 'neutral axis' and 'you have two legs why wouldn't you use them both' (not saying you said this) I think are just missing the point. I've come to believe the rear hip should be the pivot point for both hitting and throwing. I don't think you have to overbake it and have a dangling dead fron leg. Other parts of the bodies have roles to play but keep that hip pivot tight along with a tight hand pivot and a lot of things work themselves out.

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    Softball Junkie slugger3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julray View Post
    Thanks Sluggers.. yes I agree with most of what you are saying, especially "She's not driving the bat through the ball". She can certainly improve on that. And let's say I focus on that first, what would you suggest I incorporate in her training to improve this.
    OK, your not going to get the biomechincally technical terms from me like so of these guys can give you...I'll try not to make a fool of myself...

    I'll break it down in upper/lower body.

    Lower body, I only teach a striding swing. More of a striding swing than most. Probably almost as much as what Lotief teaches since that's what I model alot of what I teach after.

    For me, a striding swing means the body isn't just striding forward...it means the back leg is actually PUSHING the body forward.
    Lexie Elkins is probably one of the best examples of this...she has a very vertical starting stance. And as the pitcher was releasing the ball she would flamingo on her back leg and use that movement as a timing gauge.
    Change-up she would "flamingo longer" and then drive her back leg, on a fast ball she would drive her back leg instantly.
    Now, when I mean drive with the back leg...I literally mean drive with the back leg.
    DJ Sanders is very similar...

    The next thing that is almost a requirement when you drive with the back leg is this..."pointing" or rotating the front foot.
    When you drive with the back leg and begin the rear leg collapse, the hips twist so much faster than with a Non-striding swing.
    If that front foot isn't pointed at least 45* degrees away from the plate and towards the pitcher, when it lands (parallel to the front of the plate) that front foot will cause a braking effect on increased power/speed gained by the twisting effect.
    You can see this in alot of the GIFs that people post here.
    If the front foot is not twisted at least 45*, and is landing parallel to the front of the plate, it not only creates a braking effect on the knee which slows down the stride/twist, but it also cause the hands to cast or fan outward.

    Mid Section:
    What can I say a strong mid-section (lats/abs) is probably one of the most neglected body parts with girls.
    That's the link between the legs and upper body
    Lat pull downs will help tie the mid-section and the upper body together.

    Upper body:
    Your DD's upper body looks like a golf swing. How do I know?... My DD3 had the same style swing up until this summer....I could NOT get her fix it! Until...( I'll post later)
    To me it looks like her lead shoulder is pulling her arm and bat at an upward angle, and it's causing her lead arm to flatten against her chest.
    This type of swing can be caused by several things,
    1) one of them is purposeful coaching, teaching them to be ultra linear with the hands, and to not have any rotation in the hips and shoulders.
    2) the legs/hips are twisting too soon, and are causing the arms to collapse, OR the arms can't keep up because the legs are too strong
    3) she's firing her front shoulder and arm too late
    4) she's not strong enough to keep her front arm up with her legs, or the bat is too heavy.

    OK, so how did I fix my DD3's exact same problem this summer? ...with the help of the DFP board of course... ( and a little crazy idea or two).

    1) Strength DD3 is 16 now and is fairly strong, but 3 years ago...not so much...she couldn't do a single push-up... so work on strength..weights, or what ever you can do...push-ups wil do
    2) DD3 relies too much on her leg strength
    3) I had her hit tennis balls off of a tee with a wiffle ball bat, with only her front arm... several thousand times.. with the same motion she would when swinging a bat. Keep the front arm off of her chest/ribcage several inches.
    4) then I had her hit tennis balls off of the tee with only her back arm. To learn how to coordinate her front and back arms.
    5) Watch hitting GIFs over and over and over...if they can learn a dance move by watching others they can learn how to swing a bat by watching Miggy GIFs on YouTube

    So to sum it up...
    1) Literally drive with the back leg, don't just fall forward, and don't just lift the front foot and call it a striding swing
    2) Front foot needs to rotate at least 45* degrees, to gain the benefits of the driving rear leg and the increased twist it allows/creates
    3) When the rotated front foot lands it has to brace/stop the front leg, causing a "stopping" shock wave, that causes the mid section and upper body to whip forward...(this is one of the many areas where the Minn-Dak Armsy Swunt and the Minn-Dak Inside Out swing fail miserably)
    4) The front shoulder needs to be bringing the arm and bat around in a rotational manner and NOT upward like in a golf swing
    5) Keep the front arm off of the chest/ribcage...practice, practice, practice
    6) Drive the bat through the ball, don't just leave the wrists limp
    7) Measure the ball hit distance right now....seriously...go out, hit 24-36 balls and have one kid in the outfield marking each one...measure all of them...but this is the most important part, remember what your DD did on the farthest/hardest hit balls!!!
    Don't throw that one out a a fluke, try to mimic and replicate that swing every time! And keep working on that
    We use a storage shed/concessions building and some trees behind the left field fence as a gauge now. With known measured distances to the trees/building, we know how far the ball is hit.
    8) Measure exit speed now...and continually
    9) Have her watch lots of Miggy GIFs, and other hitting GIFs that fit you liking... and copy cat them...

    Good Luck!
    Last edited by slugger3; 07-29-2018 at 11:14 AM.

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  9. #98
    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slugger3 View Post
    OK, your not going to get the biomechincally technical terms from me like so of these guys can give you...I'll try not to make a fool of myself...

    I'll break it down in upper/lower body.

    Lower body, I only teach a striding swing. More of a striding swing than most. Probably almost as much as what Lotief teaches since that's what I model alot of what I teach after.

    For me, a striding swing means the body isn't just striding forward...it means the back leg is actually PUSHING the body forward.
    Lexie Elkins is probably one of the best examples of this...she has a very vertical starting stance. And as the pitcher was releasing the ball she would flamingo on her back leg and use that movement as a timing gauge.
    Change-up she would "flamingo longer" and then drive her back leg, on a fast ball she would drive her back leg instantly.
    Now, when I mean drive with the back leg...I literally mean drive with the back leg.
    DJ Sanders is very similar...
    What you describe has a hitters forward movement waiting until after delivery/release of the pitch.

    The majority of video I've analyzed has forward movement occurring at, or even before, the release of the pitch. I personally consider this important for the overall timing of a pitch.

    Do you have video of these two hitter's that captures the pitcher also? Would like to see it and confirm.

  10. #99
    Softball Junkie slugger3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
    What you describe has a hitters forward movement waiting until after delivery/release of the pitch.

    The majority of video I've analyzed has forward movement occurring at, or even before, the release of the pitch. I personally consider this important for the overall timing of a pitch.

    Do you have video of these two hitter's that captures the pitcher also? Would like to see it and confirm.
    Yes initial movement starts at or before pitcher movement, but the full stride doesn't occur until the ball speed is determined.

    Go to YouTube and search ULL (Lafayette) or Lotief or Elkins

  11. #100
    Softball Junkie slugger3's Avatar
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    Here's another trick that works for my DDs...

    If you have a larger room that has picture windows or a patio door that are lower to the ground...or a room that has large mirrors on the wall like a dance studio would have

    Set up a lap top (a cell phone works also), and have your DD repeatedly watch a batting gif on slow motion...Miggy, Mike Trout, Abbey Cheeks, Elkins, Sanders, Alo, Carosone....you pick
    But you need to alternate between Slow Mo (10,000 frames per second on YouTube is awesome), and a normal speed batting GIF
    Now have your DD watch herself swing a WIFFLE BALL BAT either in the mirror or in a room at night with the lights on where she can see her reflection in the large picture window
    When they see how they look swinging the bat in the mirror, or in the picture window reflection in a well lit room at night, the postive changes in their form comes pretty fast...
    When I did this with DD2 a couple of years ago, she literally said "there's not way in heck I'm swing the bat like that...." Then it was..." I had no idea"
    As parents and coaches we can tell them a thousand times what they are doing wrong or right, but when they see it themselves it really puts it into perspective for them

    Adults...try it yourself... Either swing that wiffle ball bat in a larger room with a huge mirror, or when the sun goes down turn on the lights in a larger room and watch your reflection in the picture window or patio window...
    if you've never done it before, it gives a new perspective, versus just watching yourself on a video recorded app on a small cell phone screen.
    Last edited by slugger3; 07-29-2018 at 06:46 PM.

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