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Thread: Can't hit off real pitchers

  1. #21
    Certified softball maniac pattar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOCOACH View Post
    The biggest thing I learned my first time through TB is that most of my former players at this age were timing off of the pitcher's arm motion versus the ball speed. I have had great success using, what I call, "the board." I can talk all day until I'm blue in the face but few recognize the importance of timing the ball versus timing when to launch. I get continuously flamed for my theory which is why I don't post often on the hitting threads. So, if you want help, PM me.
    Are you talking about the actual swing launch or the "gather" part of the swing? If you don't start any movement at all until you are able to recognize pitch location/speed you are going to get beat an awful lot
    in my opinion.
    Last edited by pattar; 03-12-2018 at 10:32 PM.

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    It wasn't me. rdbass's Avatar
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    You have to know the pitchers movement and time your movement off of that
    Pitchers have a lot of different 'movements'. Pitchers hide the ball.
    Hitter needs to time the ball in the air.

    Was this hitter timing the pitcher or the ball in the air?. If the hitter was timing the pitcher she wouldn't have hit the ball.

    Pitcher threw a change up. I'm guessing the hitter was timing the ball in the air. JMHO.

    I have had great success using, what I call, "the board.
    Would like to hear more about the 'board'.
    Last edited by rdbass; 03-13-2018 at 01:23 PM.
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  4. #23
    Certified softball maniac pattar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibraltor View Post
    You gotta be kidding right? Your saying the ball had left the pitchers hand when the girl started moving?
    They are talking about swing launch not any of the pre-launch stuff (gather,etc)..at least I am pretty sure rdbass is. You are on baseball-debate as is rdbass and that pattern-sequence thread shows
    it.

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    It wasn't me. rdbass's Avatar
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    You gotta be kidding right? Your(you're) saying the ball had left the pitchers hand when the girl started moving?
    Point to where I posted that the 'hitter never moved until the ball left the pitchers hand'.
    The ball left the pitchers hand when the hitter starting the timing of the ball in the air.

    Look at the girl in the back ground. What is she doing. I'll bet she was timing the pitchers movement. You can see her weight going forward but, not the hitters weight.
    I don't know sh!t from shinola!

  6. #25
    Certified softball maniac YOCOACH's Avatar
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    What it comes down to IMO is the HL swing not only creates depth and allows the hitter to build bat speed behind them, but also allows them to see the ball/pitch released from the pitchers hand the first 4-6 feet. Studies have already proven this. Just look at Tewk's sight and it will show this. Also, other studies have proven that the first 4-6 feet of watching the pitch will determine, from the hitters viewpoint, whether the ball will be a strike or a ball. they also showed that this is "the most important time of any pitch to a hitter."

    In other words, through countless swings during tee work and front toss, the hitters have developed a constant. That constant is how long it takes for their bat to reach the ball (contact point) from launch (after loading, initiating the swing). So my question to all of you is when to launch? I submit to you all of you that I believe there is a second timing mechanism involved. Timing the ball.

    In order to do this, the most accomplished hitters not only try and outguess the pitch call, but also time the ball within those first 4-6 feet from pitch release.
    Win the games you're supposed to, win some of the games you're not and make the rest of the teams know they've been in a battle to beat you.

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    Certified softball maniac YOCOACH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibraltor View Post
    Pattar your right. Teaching a hitter to try to time the ball will alter the hitters sequencing. You have to know the pitchers movement and time your movement off of that.
    Respectfully, IMO, you're absolutely wrong in your belief. Let me ask you this. Why, for the most part, are no-stride hitters ineffective? I have yet to see a no-stride hitter, no matter how big their negative load, create enough depth to build enough bat speed behind them in order to hit a pitch and have a big batting average at a high level of play. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have yet to personally see it. Why did Pujols switch from stride to a no-stride hitting sequence, then switch back again when his BA dropped dramatically?

    A no stride hitter, IMO, for the most part, doesn't have the option to start later in the pitch sequence. They have to start their swing (launch) at pitch release. This is why many of them get chewed up repeatedly by off-speed pitches and change-ups. That's one of the main reasons I won't teach it. JMHO
    Win the games you're supposed to, win some of the games you're not and make the rest of the teams know they've been in a battle to beat you.

  9. #27
    Certified softball maniac YOCOACH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdbass View Post
    Pitchers have a lot of different 'movements'. Pitchers hide the ball.
    Hitter needs to time the ball in the air.

    Was this hitter timing the pitcher or the ball in the air?. If the hitter was timing the pitcher she wouldn't have hit the ball.

    Pitcher threw a change up. I'm guessing the hitter was timing the ball in the air. JMHO.


    Would like to hear more about the 'board'.
    "The Board," is nothing more than a 2x4 sheet of 3/4 inch plywood stood longways (2' on the top and bottom). In the center, I cut a 6" wide by 18" tall slot with a jigsaw and sanded the edges. Then, I made a stand out of 2"x4" s with a small gap between the front and the back 2x4's, 1" wide and a 30 degree bias so that the plywood would lean back somewhat. By doing so, I accomplished several things., 1) If a ball hits it directly after batted, it will usually deflect off inefectually. 2) I don't do the windmill, I just do underhand front toss. The angle of the board hides the hand and in effect, my hitters have to judge the speed of the ball itself because all they see is the ball pop out from the board itself. I vary the speeds and locations from 15-20' away the same as front toss but this forces my hitters to time the ball versus the pitcher's motion.

    I have to retrieve it from the hitting facility but when I do, I'll send a picture when I get a chance.
    Last edited by YOCOACH; 03-14-2018 at 05:59 AM.
    Win the games you're supposed to, win some of the games you're not and make the rest of the teams know they've been in a battle to beat you.

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  11. #28
    Certified softball maniac pattar's Avatar
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    Ok, just to be clear, when I said the OP's daughter perhaps needed to get started earlier I wasn't talking about swing launch..I see a lot of younger hitters just stand there until the ball is released.

  12. #29
    Certified softball maniac YOCOACH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattar View Post
    Are you talking about the actual swing launch or the "gather" part of the swing? If you don't start any movement at all until you are able to recognize pitch location/speed you are going to get beat an awful lot
    in my opinion.
    AS far as I'm concerned, there are three positions to the swing previous to launch. 1) You have the ready stance. This is when they hitter first gets into the box and is relaxed (bat on the shoulder but watching the pitcher closely). 2) Then you have the set stance. This is when the Pitcher starts her motion and the Hitter goes into her pre-load (i,e, hands/bat raises into position pre-launch position.) 3) Loaded stance. Hands are over the back foot raised high loading the hands, bat tipped loading the bat, hips coiled and ready to fire, up on the front toe and ready to stride and launch. This is the position, if they build a big enough corner, which most of my hitters do, allows them to wait and see that first 4-6 feet of pitch after release from the pitchers hand in order to know when to launch their swing based on the timing of the ball speed and trajectory as to whether it's a ball or a strike.
    Last edited by YOCOACH; 03-13-2018 at 10:12 PM.
    Win the games you're supposed to, win some of the games you're not and make the rest of the teams know they've been in a battle to beat you.

  13. #30
    Certified softball maniac pattar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOCOACH View Post
    AS far as I'm concerned, there are three positions to the swing previous to launch. 1) You have the ready stance. This is when they hitter first gets into the box and is relaxed (bat on the shoulder but watching the pitcher closely). 2) Then you have the set stance. This is when the Pitcher starts her motion and the Hitter goes into her pre-load (i,e, hands/bat raises into position pre-launch position.) 3) Loaded stance. Hands are over the back foot raised high loading the hands, bat tipped loading the bat, hips coiled and ready to fire, up on the front toe and ready to stride and launch. This is the position, if they build a big enough corner, which most of my hitters do, allows them to wait and see that first 4-6 feet of pitch after release from the pitchers hand in order to know when to launch their swing based on the timing of the ball speed and trajectory as to whether it's a ball or a strike.
    Ok, so swing launch..gotcha..

    Go back and read the OP. Does the description, in particular "doesn't swing fast enough" match somebody who is timing the pitcher to launch their swing, which would seem to me lead to being out in front of most pitches, or somebody who isn't starting her "gather" (your 2 and 3 I would gather..pun intended ) until the ball is released ?

    Of course without video everyone is just guessing.
    Last edited by pattar; 03-14-2018 at 06:47 AM.

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