Outside Pitch

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Jan 28, 2017
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DD is really hitting the middle in pitch well at the moment. She hits the outside pitch really well off the tee and front toss when we are working on driving the ball opposite field. When not working on it she says she can't tell when the ball is outside. Any suggestions? Will turn 12 in April.
 
Oct 3, 2011
3,478
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Right Here For Now
I would recommend a ton of front toss. Beforehand, let her know when you're pitching inside and outside. More outside than inside. Once the timing is correct on both, quit telling her and let her figure it out for herself which is which. At 12U, especially the second year of it, pitchers will be hitting their corners. A pitch down the middle will be a HUGE mistake which hitters at this age will take advantage of to the detriment of the pitchers themselves, and more than likely, the team. I taught DD how to hit both at the age of 11 by this method.
 
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Jan 28, 2017
1,662
83
I would recommend a ton of front toss. Beforehand, let her know when you're pitching inside and outside. More outside than inside. Once the timing is correct on both, quit telling her and let her figure it out for herself which is which. At 12U, especially the second year of it, pitchers will be hitting their corners. A pitch down the middle will be a HUGE mistake which hitters at this age will take advantage of to the detriment of the pitchers themselves, and more than likely, the team. I taught DD how to hit both at the age of 11 by this method.

Thank you, that's what we are doing. Just hasn't been able to recognize it yet. Doesn't let it travel enough when she doesn't know it's coming. She has very good hands and can turn on the inside pitch while looking outside. Just a work in progress.
 
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Chris Delorit

Member
Apr 24, 2016
343
28
Green Bay, WI
DD is really hitting the middle in pitch well at the moment. She hits the outside pitch really well off the tee and front toss when we are working on driving the ball opposite field. When not working on it she says she can't tell when the ball is outside. Any suggestions? Will turn 12 in April.

Tango,

That's a pretty young age, and depending on her skill level should be fairly common.

Your description tells me she has the physical skill to make contact from side-to-side when you're working on low-risk drills like the tee and soft toss. She's confident in working within those drills because they're taking place in a relaxed, controlled environment. Very different at that age than live pitching in a non-controlled environment. I'd guess that her anxiety increases, heartbeat rises and her mind is rushing the process. This will have an affect on her vision relative to ball path, strike zone, reaction timing, etc.

Handling the inner part of the plate is easier in her case for two reasons. She's mentally focused on not getting hit by the pitch and the inside pitch requires a quicker reaction as the contact point is out front, rather than deep and deeper. Because she's hyper-focused on inside self-protection, she has very little recollection of anything close to being outside.

Is it possible that she's bailing out her front foot and/or head at contact? Swinging too hard? If so, there's a possibly that she could be losing some strike zone contact and/or vision coverage.

So, you know she has the physical skill, but perhaps you'll need to work with her on the mental part of the game. Transfer her mindset from controlled to the uncontrolled environment. It'll take some time. Relaxation, anxiety, confidence level. While you're working with her during games or tournaments, scout opposing pitchers together. You'll have an idea of what to expect when she has to bat against those kids. By 12U, there are alot of coaches already teaching their pitchers how to paint the outside corner as much as they possibly can. Why? Alot of kids at that age just aren't comfortable and experienced enough yet to be able to hit that pitch for some of the reasons I've described.

Chris
 
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rdbass

It wasn't me.
Jun 5, 2010
9,131
83
Not here.
Sounds like a hitter that swings 'around' the body instead of 'out from'. Also, I'd be looking 'upstream' of how the hitter loads.
Doesn't let it travel enough
Not what I would be telling a hitter to 'let it travel'. Might want to look at video of a hitter hitting an outside pitch and whether they 'let it travel' before they swung. Sounds like a 'upstream' problem. JMHO.
 
Last edited:
Jan 28, 2017
1,662
83
Tango,

That's a pretty young age, and depending on her skill level should be fairly common.

Your description tells me she has the physical skill to make contact from side-to-side when you're working on low-risk drills like the tee and soft toss. She's confident in working within those drills because they're taking place in a relaxed, controlled environment. Very different at that age than live pitching in a non-controlled environment. I'd guess that her anxiety increases, heartbeat rises and her mind is rushing the process. This will have an affect on her vision relative to ball path, strike zone, reaction timing, etc.

Handling the inner part of the plate is easier in her case for two reasons. She's mentally focused on not getting hit by the pitch and the inside pitch requires a quicker reaction as the contact point is out front, rather than deep and deeper. Because she's hyper-focused on inside self-protection, she has very little recollection of anything close to being outside.

Is it possible that she's bailing out her front foot and/or head at contact? Swinging too hard? If so, there's a possibly that she could be losing some strike zone contact and/or vision coverage.

So, you know she has the physical skill, but perhaps you'll need to work with her on the mental part of the game. Transfer her mindset from controlled to the uncontrolled environment. It'll take some time. Relaxation, anxiety, confidence level. While you're working with her during games or tournaments, scout opposing pitchers together. You'll have an idea of what to expect when she has to bat against those kids. By 12U, there are alot of coaches already teaching their pitchers how to paint the outside corner as much as they possibly can. Why? Alot of kids at that age just aren't comfortable and experienced enough yet to be able to hit that pitch for some of the reasons I've described.

Chris

Thanks, she does try really hard and that causes some anxiety. She is a perfectionist and has a dad that's pretty hard on her. I don't think she is concerned with getting hit with the ball. She will turn into a lot of pitches and take them. If anything she steps a little closed. She also pitches and for a 11 year old understands spotting the ball pretty good. She has even said, if I can't tell if the ball is on the outer half, I'll never hit movement pitches.
 
Jan 28, 2017
1,662
83
Sounds like a hitter that swings 'around' the body instead of 'out from'. Also, I'd be looking 'upstream' of how the hitter loads.

Not what I would be telling a hitter to 'let it travel'. Might want to look at video of a hitter hitting an outside pitch and whether they 'let it travel' before they swung. Sounds like a 'upstream' problem. JMHO.[/QUOTE

Hits around it sometimes and really through it good sometimes. She does bar her arm some but it has gotten a lot better. Tee work looks really good and really drives the ball in the opposite field gap.

Please explain upstream. I think you hit an outside pitch deeper in the zone. Not following you on that.
 

Chris Delorit

Member
Apr 24, 2016
343
28
Green Bay, WI
Thanks, she does try really hard and that causes some anxiety. She is a perfectionist and has a dad that's pretty hard on her. I don't think she is concerned with getting hit with the ball. She will turn into a lot of pitches and take them. If anything she steps a little closed. She also pitches and for a 11 year old understands spotting the ball pretty good. She has even said, if I can't tell if the ball is on the outer half, I'll never hit movement pitches.

The positive is that she's giving you information, that's she's not tracking the ball on the outer half of the plate. You've given some information that she strides a little closed, or that the front foot is closer to the plate than the rear foot. Also, that's she's a perfectionist, tries really hard and that you're pretty hard on her.

Mechanically, she's striding or her stance is slightly closed. This means the front foot is closer to home plate than the back foot. If you're too closed, you lose a percentage of tracking vision from the rear eye. In essense, you're tracking closer to 2D and can lose depth perception. Another disadvantage is if your daughter's head is at a higher degree of angle relative to a square front shoulder. This positions her eyes at an angle to the ground, instead of a more relative level (say, within 10 degress or so) with the ground.

Bad mechanics = bad posture and vice versa. For her stance, maybe experiment with a more open stance. This will also bring back the rear eye and she's starts to see in 3D again. Square the head to the front shoulder (again, within 10 degrees or so), which will place the eyes on a level closer to the horizon. Now, you've improved trueing in her visual path. If you experiment with a more open front foot, she will close to approximately parallel to the batter's box line or inside line of home plate at contact. Her head will remain quiet and track with the front shoulder.

Mentally, she's already admitted to you that she can't hit that pitch, and has also pre-determined that she won't be able to hit movement pitches. You also may consider possibility of an excuse (I can't see it) to cover anxiety (I'll never hit a movement pitch). Not diagnosing it, just offering the possibility. It's common for coaches to experience similar situations within that age level of athletics.

The definition of perfectionism... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_(psychology)

As a perfectionist, she may have to learn how to find her own equilibrium.

Successes are realized in the journey to try to minimize failures more than your opponent, not to eliminate them all together.

At 11, she's got all kinds of time to become a pro! ;)
 
Last edited:
Jan 28, 2017
1,662
83
The positive is that she's giving you information, that's she's not tracking the ball on the outer half of the plate. You've given some information that she strides a little closed, or that the front foot is closer to the plate than the rear foot. Also, that's she's a perfectionist, tries really hard and that you're pretty hard on her.

Mechanically, she's striding or her stance is slightly closed. This means the front foot is closer to home plate than the back foot. If you're too closed, you lose a percentage of tracking vision from the rear eye. In essense, you're tracking closer to 2D and can lose depth perception. Another disadvantage is if your daughter's head is at a higher degree of angle relative to a square front shoulder. This positions her eyes at an angle to the ground, instead of a more relative level (say, within 10 degress or so) with the ground.

Bad mechanics = bad posture and vice versa. For her stance, maybe experiment with a more open stance. This will also bring back the rear eye and she's starts to see in 3D again. Square the head to the front shoulder (again, within 10 degrees or so), which will place the eyes on a level closer to the horizon. Now, you've improved trueing in her visual path. If you experiment with a more open front foot, she will close to approximately parallel to the batter's box line or inside line of home plate at contact. Her head will remain quiet and track with the front shoulder.

Mentally, she's already admitted to you that she can't hit that pitch, and has also pre-determined that she won't be able to hit movement pitches. You also may consider possibility of an excuse (I can't see it) to cover anxiety (I'll never hit a movement pitch). Not diagnosing it, just offering the possibility. It's common for coaches to experience similar situations within that age level of athletics.

The definition of perfectionism... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_(psychology)

As a perfectionist, she may have to learn how to find her own equilibrium.

Successes are realized in the journey to try to minimize failures more than your opponent, not to eliminate them all together.

At 11, she's got all kinds of time to become a pro! ;)

Thanks again, you gave me a lot of things to think about. It looks so good when she drives it opposite field. Just not nearly enough.
 
Sep 17, 2009
1,637
83
1. Take all the technical advice you get here and keep working with her. Nice job on that.

2. Try working soft-toss, round 1 tell her where the ball is going--inside/outside. Round 2, mix it up and she'll have to work on identifying and delivering a good swing.

3. Improve her game/plate-awareness starting it the dugout (team) and on-deck circle (individual). It's a bit early to see pitchers good enough to have real tendencies lol but....is it a right-hander with a curve that likes to work outside of the plate (and the ump is giving it to her). A drop-baller? A pitcher with speed working up and/or in? She can start to zone for that outside pitch if she knows she's going to get it.
 

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