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Thread: 13yo Maddie

  1. #101
    Certified softball maniac djcarter1966's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    Actually many hitters load and hold or have very little pull back. The hands can stay in one place as well (walking away from the hands). You can have a good sequence with moving the hands back or pulling back and then holding during the part of the stride (hand stay back).
    I have advocated this method before and I do think it is the quickest fix to get your hands and bat positioned properly then hold as you finish putting your stride foot down. The more I looked at it though I think being able to put it all together is optimal. I think that optimal hold and in some players you will actually see a little extra reach back is just the instant your heel comes down and you first begin your hands moving forward.

    Now if you analyze a bunch of swings and we all have, you will see many different variations but in the vast majority of cases of elite swings the point at which your toe touches, your hands are the farthest back (even if this position is held for a while) and heel plants and hands begin going forward are all together within a couple frames of film. Now since all this happens very close together I don't usually get too bent out of shape if the results are there but when we see the hands going forward before toe touch I generally call that a leak and if your hands don't begin moving forward right after heel plant you are usually late a lot or begin your sequence too early to compensate and have an armsy swing because your hip need so badly to release regardless of your hands staying back.

    Again I think for many players once they have good mechanics down this little mini sequence becomes both a timing and feel thing they work out for themselves but it still happens in a small window.

    For Maddie I think she does a good job of holding and not leaking which is great. I just think her optimal swing will have her hands back more since I don't think her bat angle and separation are enough. As he stated though getting greater separation tends to lead her to a longer loopy swing because I'm guessing she feels the need to change her path which as I stated is probably not a good trade off to make

    Again her swing is really good I think what Eric is looking for is help in spotting any small areas of improvement that can take her swing from really good to great. Did I mention already her swing is really good.

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    Last edited by djcarter1966; 10-12-2017 at 12:17 AM.

  2. #102
    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FP26 View Post
    By "lead-arm leveling" are you referring to setting the swing plane?
    The leveling of the lead-arm/bottom-hand to the perception of ball impact.

  3. #103
    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
    Would your "leveling of the lead arm" be the same - or similar - to what SB refers to as "elbow jut"?
    Please describe "elbow jut".

    I ask, because many use the term inappropriately IMO.

  4. #104
    Always learning... Eric F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
    Please describe "elbow jut".

    I ask, because many use the term inappropriately IMO.
    It's a term SB uses. My interpretation has been that it's about getting the lead elbow working upwards away from the torso, but how far up, I'm not sure. It's very possible that my interpretation is incorrect.

    Your description of leveling the lead arm to get on plane makes complete sense to me, and is how I have approached the issue with hitters who pin their lead arm against their torso.

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  6. #105
    Certified softball maniac corlay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
    A slightly different angle of the same swing...
    she's really got the forward-by-coil thing down.
    nice to watch that little tuft of white poking from her back right pocket, rotate away from catcher/toward pitcher as she moves forward...

    To me, she looks like a young player who has been instructed very well on all the individual aspects of the swing,
    but is still searching for her own sequence? will be fun to watch this all come together and smooth-out over the coming years...

    One thing that strikes me, is that she looks very hunched-over in her starting stance, and not athletically comfortable.
    Like spine is "rounded" forward, as opposed to slightly "titled" forward.

    I'm a novice analyst of hitting, so count this as a layman's opinion. ;-)

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  8. #106
    Always learning... Eric F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corlay View Post
    she's really got the forward-by-coil thing down.
    nice to watch that little tuft of white poking from her back right pocket, rotate away from catcher/toward pitcher as she moves forward...

    To me, she looks like a young player who has been instructed very well on all the individual aspects of the swing,
    but is still searching for her own sequence? will be fun to watch this all come together and smooth-out over the coming years...

    One thing that strikes me, is that she looks very hunched-over in her starting stance, and not athletically comfortable.
    Like spine is "rounded" forward, as opposed to slightly "titled" forward.

    I'm a novice analyst of hitting, so count this as a layman's opinion. ;-)
    Thanks for the kinds words, and you're pretty on-target with it all. Some things she is still trying to sort out in her own body. Some things still need more adjustment.

    I agree about the hunched stance. I'm not a fan of it. I would prefer to see her shoulders and spine be more "neutral", and it has been suggested a few times. She says she likes the way this feels right now. I'm leaving that battle for another day

  9. #107
    Softball Junkie Shawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djcarter1966 View Post
    I have advocated this method before and I do think it is the quickest fix to get your hands and bat positioned properly then hold as you finish putting your stride foot down. The more I looked at it though I think being able to put it all together is optimal. I think that optimal hold and in some players you will actually see a little extra reach back is just the instant your heel comes down and you first begin your hands moving forward.

    Now if you analyze a bunch of swings and we all have, you will see many different variations but in the vast majority of cases of elite swings the point at which your toe touches, your hands are the farthest back (even if this position is held for a while) and heel plants and hands begin going forward are all together within a couple frames of film. Now since all this happens very close together I don't usually get too bent out of shape if the results are there but when we see the hands going forward before toe touch I generally call that a leak and if your hands don't begin moving forward right after heel plant you are usually late a lot or begin your sequence too early to compensate and have an armsy swing because your hip need so badly to release regardless of your hands staying back.

    Again I think for many players once they have good mechanics down this little mini sequence becomes both a timing and feel thing they work out for themselves but it still happens in a small window.

    For Maddie I think she does a good job of holding and not leaking which is great. I just think her optimal swing will have her hands back more since I don't think her bat angle and separation are enough. As he stated though getting greater separation tends to lead her to a longer loopy swing because I'm guessing she feels the need to change her path which as I stated is probably not a good trade off to make

    Again her swing is really good I think what Eric is looking for is help in spotting any small areas of improvement that can take her swing from really good to great. Did I mention already her swing is really good.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
    Even with hitters that hold, there is a rhythm to it. The body supplies the rhythm for the hands.
    "It is hard to fill a cup that is already full"

  10. #108
    Certified softball maniac djcarter1966's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    Even with hitters that hold, there is a rhythm to it. The body supplies the rhythm for the hands.
    Granted but you have to hold after reaching back...which she does...but she go back a little more then hold but hey she a waaaaay ahead of most

  11. #109
    Wannabe Duck Boat Owner Greenmonsters's Avatar
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    Increase the separation and the LF will run into the fence before they have the chance to catch the ball. I see a kid who is in the process of trying to get comfortable her with swing mechanics AND her new physique following an obvious growth spurt. At this time, until she gets fully acclimated and comfortable, I’d be inclined to be patient and just tell her to focus on hitting the ball hard.
    “It is what we learn after we know it all that really counts” - John Wooden

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  13. #110
    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
    It's a term SB uses. My interpretation has been that it's about getting the lead elbow working upwards away from the torso, but how far up, I'm not sure. It's very possible that my interpretation is incorrect.

    Your description of leveling the lead arm to get on plane makes complete sense to me, and is how I have approached the issue with hitters who pin their lead arm against their torso.
    I don't think of jutting the lead elbow. I consider the front arm to be a swinger .... and it needs to undergo a leveling process.

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