Inside-outside swing

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Jun 17, 2009
15,105
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Portland, OR
I believe most folks know that a good swing is ‘inside-out’ … as opposed to ‘outside-in’ (i.e., OTT … over the top).

Why do amateur hitters get jammed on pitches on the inner half of the plate? Many times it is because they have an ‘outside-in’ swing.

Taking down amateur hitters is one thing … taking down polished hitters is another thing.

Most good successful hitters have an ‘inside-out’ swing. They can handle a pitch on either edge of the plate with the same swing mentality. They don’t need multiple swing approaches to deal with a pitch on either side of the plate. They have an approach that deals with inside/outside pitch location … albeit they need to have a fairly accurate prediction of the inside/outside location early in their swing.

For a good hitter with an ‘inside-out’ swing, the location of 'inside' vs 'outside' is determined relatively early in their swing. If a hitter makes a mistake here then they can end up being ‘sawed off’ / ‘jammed’, or they can get ahead and ‘slice’.

The question for the pitching gurus, is, how do you ‘jam’ a good hitter that has an effective ‘inside-out’ swing? Is it possible to make a batter initially perceive that the ball will be further ‘outside’, and have it end up being more ‘inside’ than they initially thought? Can you get their early portion of their swing to be started with an early prediction that the pitch will be further ‘outside’ than it actually ends up? Can this be accomplished with an angled pitch?

Likewise, is it possible to make a batter initially perceive that the ball will be further ‘inside’, and have it end up being more ‘outside’ than they initially thought?

Can a pitch be thrown to take advantage of a hitters need to properly predict, early in the swing, the inside/outside location of the pitch?
 
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Nov 7, 2014
483
0
FFS I have a question do you advocate a push in the swing ?? or are you just calling inside-out as due to at POC the hands are always inside the ball ??
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
FFS I have a question do you advocate a push in the swing ?? or are you just calling inside-out as due to at POC the hands are always inside the ball ??

Dmae ... an inside-out swing path, more often than not, will lead to what many actually mean by being 'inside the ball'. Many folks have the concept of 'inside the ball' incorrect ... and I don't know your reference point.

Having an 'inside-out' swing is a pretty simply concept. Let me attempt to clarify with a few GIFs.

During the "Around" the barrel is rotated 'around' the rear forearm, whereas during the "Along" the barrel is flailed/cast/sent/thrown 'along' the rear forearm. The "Around" / "Short-To" isn't just about getting the swing started and building up early bat speed ... it is also about getting into a position to have the barrel thrown/flailed/cast with direction. Direction is one of the keys to good hitting.

Around / Short-To:

4t5xk5.gif



Along / Long-Through:

33bgthj.gif



A batter that gets their early prediction of inside/outside pitch recognition incorrect will have the direction of their throw disrupted. They can be subjected to being 'jammed' / 'sawed off' or 'slicing'.
 
Nov 7, 2014
483
0
You answered my question ... to many coaches denote the inside out swing to more of a linear a-b path or a heavily push disconnected swing which will lack the bat whip or as you call it throwing the barrel. and do not understand that hitting to opposite fields or pulling is merely pitch recognition and timing of there shoulder rotation and/or heel plant depending on what the batter was taught by learning to pause swing launch if needed . I was just curious of your input :)



Dmae ... an inside-out swing path, more often than not, will lead to what many actually mean by being 'inside the ball'. Many folks have the concept of 'inside the ball' incorrect ... and I don't know your reference point.

Having an 'inside-out' swing is a pretty simply concept. Let me attempt to clarify with a few GIFs.

During the "Around" the barrel is rotated 'around' the rear forearm, whereas during the "Along" the barrel is flailed/cast/sent/thrown 'along' the rear forearm. The "Around" / "Short-To" isn't just about getting the swing started and building up early bat speed ... it is also about getting into a position to have the barrel thrown/flailed/cast with direction. Direction is one of the keys to good hitting.

Around / Short-To:

4t5xk5.gif



Along / Long-Through:

33bgthj.gif



A batter that gets their early prediction of inside/outside pitch recognition incorrect will have the direction of their throw disrupted. They can be subjected to being 'jammed' / 'sawed off' or 'slicing'.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
You answered my question ... to many coaches denote the inside out swing to more of a linear a-b path or a heavily push disconnected swing which will lack the bat whip or as you call it throwing the barrel. and do not understand that hitting to opposite fields or pulling is merely pitch recognition and timing of there shoulder rotation and/or heel plant depending on what the batter was taught by learning to pause swing launch if needed . I was just curious of your input :)

Well stated Dmae.

An angled pitch needs to be more precisely timed … and plays into a batter’s need to accurately hone in on the inside/outside pitch location early in their swing.

For an inside-angled pitch, if a batter is late, then their ‘inside-out’ swing approach has effectively been turned into an ‘outside-in’ swing approach, and they are ‘jammed’ / ‘sawed off’. They will effectively have an ‘outside the ball’ type swing (reference is relative to the ‘barrel’, not the ‘hands’). If they are early then they are more apt to ‘flair’ / ‘slice’ the ball.
 
Last edited:

Greenmonsters

Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Feb 21, 2009
6,168
38
New England
Jeter's swing was often referred to as a "classic" inside-out swing. Maybe someone can put side by side gifs of him and Miggy to further this discussion.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
GM, until your post, these posts were part of a thread in the pitching forum that were relocated here. These posts, from my perspective, are somewhat out of context due to the relocation and removal from earlier posts in that thread.

Note this portion of the top post in this thread ...

The question for the pitching gurus, is, how do you ‘jam’ a good hitter that has an effective ‘inside-out’ swing? Is it possible to make a batter initially perceive that the ball will be further ‘outside’, and have it end up being more ‘inside’ than they initially thought? Can you get their early portion of their swing to be started with an early prediction that the pitch will be further ‘outside’ than it actually ends up? Can this be accomplished with an angled pitch?

Likewise, is it possible to make a batter initially perceive that the ball will be further ‘inside’, and have it end up being more ‘outside’ than they initially thought?

Can a pitch be thrown to take advantage of a hitters need to properly predict, early in the swing, the inside/outside location of the pitch?


It was a question directed towards "pitching gurus", that was originally posted in a pitching thread that had a bias against pitchers throwing curve-balls and screw-balls.
 
Well stated Dmae.

An angled pitch needs to be more precisely timed … and plays into a batter’s need to accurately hone in on the inside/outside pitch location early in their swing.

For an inside-angled pitch, if a batter is late, then their ‘inside-out’ swing approach has effectively been turned into an ‘outside-in’ swing approach, and they are ‘jammed’ / ‘sawed off’. They will effectively have an ‘outside the ball’ type swing (reference is relative to the ‘barrel’, not the ‘hands’). If they are early then they are more apt to ‘flair’ / ‘slice’ the ball.

FFS
This is an excellent thread and I hope all the viewers on the Pitching Forum check it out. I rarely view the hitting stuff here (busy enough with pitching) so it is refreshing to take a break from pitching.
Recently, on the Pitching Forum there has been a lot of discussion relative to who should call pitches (coach, catcher, or pitcher). Understand I am coming strictly from the D-I college level in these comments.
For a college coach to be a good pitch caller they need to understand all facets of hitting, not just swing mechanics. Just about every hitter has at least one flaw...many have multiple That flaw could be basic poor mechanics, positioning in the box (plate coverage), timing or speed variations, or weak on one of the planes (rising, dropping horizontal), or just poor recognition of ball movement, and maybe most importantly situational pitching vs. situational hitting.
Pitch calling is an art....a feel...combined with knowledge. At the high levels of college softball the studying of opponent hitters (and pitchers) is extensive. The amount of video available today is amazing.....it seems everyone is live streaming their games.
Having said all this let me support what I think you are suggesting......the most common flaw in hitting is early disconnection of the hands from the shoulders (outside in). When a hitter disconnects early it is nearly impossible for them to bring their hands/bat sweet spot back in to hit an inside pitch. On the contrary if a hitter can not adjust their posture enough to minimize the disconnection (see long sweeping swing) on a low outside pitch they become susceptable to that location.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
Yes Rick, I am suggesting that good hitters tend to use good inside-out swing mechanics, and that a hitter needs to determine early in the pitch, within a reasonable extent that can't be covered by adjustability, the degree that the pitch will be inside or outside. The early portion of a hitter's swing is about getting into a position to ultimately deliver the barrel into & through the ball ... with "direction" ... and if they can't get that prediction correct early in their swing, then ultimately their "direction" will be scarified ... as well as their ability to square the ball. As you described ... if a hitter overdoes their "short-to", then they can't deal as effectively with a pitch that ends up further outside than they were expecting. If a hitter prematurely thinks the ball is further outside than it ends up being, then they can't recover from that error to effectively hit that pitch as well either.

Inside/outside movement ... even if simply angled ... is a real asset to a pitcher.
 

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