ASA Code Changes for 2012 - Final

Bishop said:

Both my 14u pitchers this summer will be HS pitchers in the fall. They need to be throwing at 43' now. It's going to be an NSA kind of summer for us. It will be a repeat next year and the year after as well.

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People keep on telling me the change is minimal for the pitchers, so why is the distance for the lower age such a big deal?

FPMark said:

In my understanding, ASA had a proposal to change 14U from 40' to 43' last year. In fact all the other organizations went ahead and changed their rules in anticipation of ASA passing the proposal. After all, the proposal made sense. But then teams started raising a fuss about it, using the previously mentioned BS reasoning, when in reality it had more to do with teams wanting to be able to play up and compete. It is fairly common for 12U teams to qualify for ASA Nationals, and then move up to 14U to play the tougher competition before going to Nationals at the end of the year. The proposal was defeated. It was not brought up again this year. Talk about "allowing each team to dictate policy".

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You don't like it, so it must be BS, right? So what if teams are playing up, teams from all age levels do the same thing, even 18U playing women's/23U tournaments.

And maybe you haven't learned this yet, just who do you think dictates policy?

Part of the reasoning for the defeat was also said to be that if 2nd year 14U teams wanted to play at 43', all they had to do was move up to 16U. This is a real interesting solution. So, any good pitcher that pitches in HS has to decide whether they want to move back and forth from 40' to 43' to play ASA 14U, move to 16U ASA, or go to a different sanction. Two of the three options involve leaving ASA's 14U.

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I don't know where you get your BS information, but I've been in the room the past dozen years, have you? Hopefully, the folks on the board understand you are making this up as you go along.

Meanwhile, the good 12U ASA teams, now have an opportunity to qualify for Nationals at 12U, or take advantage of the weakened 14U level and try to qualify there as a 2nd year 12U team. Man won't that look good on the carrot chasers resome!! This could easily happen under the current rules of the 14U age group, and is the basis for my original question about changing the age groups to 16U and 13U. ASA seems to see no reason to change 14U to 43', so changing the age groups to more accuratly reflect the age groups and talent level of the girls participating would seem a logical step. I don't believe ASA will actually do it, nor do I think it is the best solution, but if they are not going to change the distance, 14U could become a "B" level division.

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Well, if you live on a farm, at least, you are saving on fertilizer.

Why is so hard for people to understand the classifications are in place to protect the younger players that do not or haven/t the opportunity to develop

MTR said:

People keep on telling me the change is minimal for the pitchers, so why is the distance for the lower age such a big deal?

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MTR said:

You don't like it, so it must be BS, right? So what if teams are playing up, teams from all age levels do the same thing, even 18U playing women's/23U tournaments.

And maybe you haven't learned this yet, just who do you think dictates policy?



I don't know where you get your BS information, but I've been in the room the past dozen years, have you? Hopefully, the folks on the board understand you are making this up as you go along.



Well, if you live on a farm, at least, you are saving on fertilizer.

Why is so hard for people to understand the classifications are in place to protect the younger players that do not or haven/t the opportunity to develop

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Protect them from what? Having the opportunity to play and develop at a distance that will be necessary in HS, during the time they could also play in the ASA 14U age group? Your answers seem to have an; it is what it is, deal with it, or play somewhere else attitude. All I am trying to do is give you a heads up of what is going on. HS coaches, and parents not wanting their pitchers and hitters switching back and forth.

Moving the distance in 14U would give players an extra year to develop before having to play at that distance in HS. I know you don't care about HS, but players and parents do. Say I'm full of whatever you want, but please don't try to say it's better for the development of players to switch back and forth, that's just silly. After all, it is ASA's "A" catagory we're talking about.

Around here , this not only affects some of the HS pitchers , it also affects all of the Middle School pitchers. All of these kids pitch school ball at 43' then have to move to 40' for ASA travel ball. That is the main reason that most 14u around here plays USSSA (43') instead of ASA

14u ASA is a joke. It's just made up of the 13 and 14 year olds who can't get on a 16u team. Every other alphabet soup has tournaments at 43' for 14u, and they've become a joke because the 16u ASA teams (that are really 14u eligible), just come and blow away the 14u non-ASA teams and collect meaningless trophies.

It's the division between the stoic old-man club decision makers that is making a farce out of the game. The difference in distance is what is hurting the sport, not the distance itself. If the old men could see past their bifocals to realize this, they might make the change, but they can't, they're stubborn, and still think they're the center of the softball world. The rest of us, that are actually out there teaching and playing the sport, are the ones that suffer.

FYI, it isn't the pitchers that suffer the distance changes, it's the hitters that suffer. Unfortunately, many of those hitters are kids that are still learning and trying, and keep getting pushed down due to the decisions of the old men club.

-W

Don't have a dog in this fight right now, but around here 14U seems to be for the weaker 14U teams and the stronger 12U teams. Average and/or first year 12U teams play 12U. Stronger and/or second year 14U teams all seem to have moved up.

Interesting how there seems to be so much passion around 14u pitching from 43 feet, but it was not proposed as a rule change at ASA council.

From this board, and I agree that it is a limited sampling, there seems to be an almost unamimous cry for the change, but again it was not proposed....

This is telling me that people would rather whine and complain then do something about it.

As was stated, ASA is NOT a bunch of bifocal wearing, cigar smoking old men sitting in a dark room somewhere making decisions....it is a democratic body that is represented by people from all over the country VOTING on proposed rule changes. If a change is not proposed, it can't be voted on....

If there is that much cry for 14u to pitch from 43 ft, draft a proposal with a good argument for the change, forward it to your local ASA commissioner, and get it before the council.

But then again, if that was done, it would be one less thing for people to whine and complain about.....

The "local ASA commissions" are very far from democratic, at least in California. The system works good I paper, but not in reality.

-W

starsnuffer said:

14u ASA is a joke. It's just made up of the 13 and 14 year olds who can't get on a 16u team. Every other alphabet soup has tournaments at 43' for 14u, and they've become a joke because the 16u ASA teams (that are really 14u eligible), just come and blow away the 14u non-ASA teams and collect meaningless trophies.

It's the division between the stoic old-man club decision makers that is making a farce out of the game. The difference in distance is what is hurting the sport, not the distance itself. If the old men could see past their bifocals to realize this, they might make the change, but they can't, they're stubborn, and still think they're the center of the softball world. The rest of us, that are actually out there teaching and playing the sport, are the ones that suffer.

FYI, it isn't the pitchers that suffer the distance changes, it's the hitters that suffer. Unfortunately, many of those hitters are kids that are still learning and trying, and keep getting pushed down due to the decisions of the old men club.

-W

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"Suffering"? Please explain what you mean by this? 14u is thriving in NorCal.

starsnuffer said:

The "local ASA commissions" are very far from democratic, at least in California. The system works good I paper, but not in reality.

-W

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And there is the whine which was noted. Are you aware that commissioners have less than 1/3 of the voting power in the general council?

Now, someone is going to mention how the commissioners control the votes of their associates. Well, how can that be since the voting is secret ballot via wireless hand-held units that can be operated anywhere inside the conference room?

And for those who think umpires run the show, they have only 15 votes.

However, it seems the hardest part people have grasping is that it isn't just about travel ball, it isn't just about scholarships, it isn't just about Gold, it isn't about just FP, it isn't just about SP, it isn't about MP, it isn't just about JO, it isn't just about adult ball and it isnt just about Senior ball. It is about the game of softball, the whole game from top to bottom.

As much as ASA tries to accommodate everyone, and they do try to accommodate different sects of the game, you are not going to make everyone happy all the time and that is what people here want.

The council is reminded a couple times to remember to consider what is good for the game, not necessarily just their own backyard which is their job as a council member. It should also be noted that when reviewing rule/code changes, many of the committees will defer to another committee's preference if the change affects that group more than others (i.e. JO committee involving youth, Seniors committee for Seniors, etc.), so if something is defeated, it isn't just a whim, but something that has been hashed out in numerous committees and sometimes on the floor. Oh, and did I mention that input from non-voting members is not only permitted, but often invited.

I'm not naive enough to think there is no politics involved, there is just like every other organization. The discussions in the hotel lobby and hallways can be just as important as those in committee, but it still comes down to the General Council and ANY consensus result can be openly challenged on the floor by any council member. This year there were 14 code change consents challenged on the floor of which 6 were reversed. Obviously, no system is perfect, but this one is pretty damn good and fair.