Softball Throwing Mechanics

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Jan 14, 2009
1,591
0
Atlanta, Georgia
I don't think coaches know the sequence. At all. Again, not a knock on them. Most are volunteers. When the kids come in from paid programs and they have no clue, that's when I get pissed.

IMO, most don't know the sequence. Specifically, they don't understand the relationship between the lower and upper half. However, I would bet my house that most men who coach and have played baseball beyond little league, throw correctly. They do the sequence correctly themselves. They just don't know what they're doing because they do it naturally. Most boys grow up throwing baseballs, footballs and skipping rocks. They don't think about about how they throw, they just throw.

As Epstein says; "Do We Teach What We Really See?". Or, in the case of throwing, "Do Male Coaches Teach What They Really Do?".
 
Jan 14, 2009
1,591
0
Atlanta, Georgia
Looks like Lincecum gets the elbows high.

I guess he's just a "freak"

Some experts believe that the position Lincecum has his throwing arm in, in this photo, can lead to arm injury. Hodge would agree. Hodge teaches to keep the throwing arm forearm more horizontal; similar to Lincecum's front arm.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTreUOZJcWNx_iaZ-zSHbDbK2dbDiNH1W7iypDXg35cKyAo_IFxCw

I don't see a high elbow.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTfMuvR3Ugt2JvbF8Q-bHU4w0vlmZ2zTt85ptSK-upRuWl0PmIj

Btw, this is the position that I see most male coaches teaching girls. When I taught my daughter this position, it totally messed up her sync. If you are a guy and played baseball beyond little league, it is highly unlikely that you get your throwing arm into this position prior to rolling over your front thigh. Try it at home. Get into this position first...and then roll over your front thigh to throw. Totally unnatural, and not what most of us guys do. Yet this is the position I taught and what I see most coaches teaching. The important part of the throw happens before the arm gets to this position.
 
May 26, 2010
197
0
Central NJ
Some experts believe that the position Lincecum has his throwing arm in, in this photo, can lead to arm injury. Hodge would agree. Hodge teaches to keep the throwing arm forearm more horizontal; similar to Lincecum's front arm.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTreUOZJcWNx_iaZ-zSHbDbK2dbDiNH1W7iypDXg35cKyAo_IFxCw

I don't see a high elbow.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTfMuvR3Ugt2JvbF8Q-bHU4w0vlmZ2zTt85ptSK-upRuWl0PmIj

Btw, this is the position that I see most male coaches teaching girls. When I taught my daughter this position, it totally messed up her sync. If you are a guy and played baseball beyond little league, it is highly unlikely that you get your throwing arm into this position prior to rolling over your front thigh. Try it at home. Get into this position first...and then roll over your front thigh to throw. Totally unnatural, and not what most of us guys do. Yet this is the position I taught and what I see most coaches teaching. The important part of the throw happens before the arm gets to this position.

Using Tim Lincecum as an example for how to throw is ill-advised. They don't call him "The Freak" for nothing.
 
May 7, 2008
977
0
San Rafael, Ca
I recommend forward chaining as described by Hodge and backward chaining as described by Nyman and Wolforth.

I do not think showing the ball to center field creates a problem/is a problem, the problem is poor sequence.

Hodge explains well how to limit stress to the anterior shoulder by internal rotation at handbreak that stabilizes the ball in socket, then uninterrupted/well timed loading and unloading (by synch of back arm and front leg) and limit stress to posterior shoulder by lengthening deceleration, and limiting elbow stress by limiting release supination.

In my opinion showing the ball to center filed does not have to encourage supination, and what really stresses the elbow is a poor sequence typical of softball throws where the throwing arm disconnects from the torso and rapid acceleration takes place too much by flexion/extension of the arm and not enough by internal rotation. The combination of too active a "flexor muscle mass" and too deep a bend in the throwing elbow, then throwing primarily by extension ( and only secondarily by internal rotation) forces a supinating release and stresses the medial collateral ligament causing little league elbow.

Just because you show ball to center field does not mean you force supination. Even when you break the hands this way with lots of preset throwing forearm pronation, you can still get a "pronating" release with a good sequence by ongoing/into follow through internal rotation of the throwing arm as the forearm remains pronated and while still allowing 4 seam underspin.

Likewise if you show the ball to third base it does not make it any more likely you will throw in the high level pattern with rapid acceleration primarily by internal rotation and only secondarily by flexion extension. What does help is to keep the rear elbow at about 90 degrees (as with the throwmax device which can work well in spite of what some self proclaimed experts say) since this right angle forearm provides the most efficient lever arm for acceleration of the throwing hand by INternal rotation as rapid acceleration begins. A deeper flex in the elbow encourages too much flexion/extension. If there is arm extension/straightening after handbreak, the elbow needs to get back to about 90 degrees by the time of INternal rotation starting. Once the sequence is learned (rapid acceleration primarily by INternal rotation/whipping of arm loop with feel of "staying on top") then you can shorten/quicken a high level sequence with a slightly deeper than 90 degree bend at the elbow as with Buster Posey throwing to second for example.

To limit trouble with the "high elbow" you need to understand how to tilt the torso to support various arm angles.

I also think grip, release and wrist flips are very important to stress for beginners as the first part of backward shaping. The big ball (11 then 12 " diameter) encourages squeezing the ball which messes up release. Small kids need 4 finger grip then 3 and sometimes 2 finger (when/if they can, 2 finger most desirable in my opinion). They usually need help learning 4 seam grip, wrist flexion/finger extension, underspin/how ball leaves fingers. then you can move back to arm (facing forward on front leg swearing in/internal rotation) and wrist throws, and then to torso flexion/arm wrist, then to starting sideways, then back to crow hop to get sideways.

Also I prefer step behind to get sideways better as opposed to step in in front with posting foot.


I do think both Hodge and Nyman miss the rear hip coil emphasis.
 
Mar 14, 2011
785
18
Silicon Valley, CA
Here are the four basic steps I teach now. These steps are from Hodge and accurately describe how I've thrown since I started playing baseball as a kid.

1. Get sideways to target.
2. Break Hands Correctly - Palms down, elbows flexed, arms close to horizontal to the ground.
3. When stride leg rolls over to land, bring throwing arm and head together.
4. Land on a flexed front leg.

Can you explain what it means to bring throwing arm and head together? I am very interested in this thread. I had no idea how hard it would be to get girls to throw a ball.
 
Jul 14, 2010
86
0
New England
His stuff on the arm circle, and how showing the ball to CF/2B/Directly behind them reduces the risk of injury, actually INCREASES the risk of injury.

If you teach this and your players develop tenderness on the bump on the inside of the elbow, this is why.

You are teaching them to throw a slider or cutter.

PLEASE DON'T TEACH PLAYERS TO SHOW THE BALL TO CF.

That's why the players in the video, while making a show of showing the ball to CF to please the coach, don't actually throw from that position. They show the ball to 3B (1B for lefties) just before throwing.

In general, dropping the elbow is incorrectly blamed for injuries.

Chris, I was taught to throw by having the ball facing directly behind me. Every once in a while I get a small flare up of pain right around the inside of my elbow (whatever tendon is in there) and my lower bicep. I have had soreness on the bump you are talking about before as well. So is it better to have the ball facing 90 degrees away from my head (or to 3B as you said) and would that eliminate the little pain that I'm feeling?
 
Oct 25, 2009
3,345
48
I agree with not forcing the ball to face centerfield. If you relax the tension in the elbow/hand the ball will face more towards third.
 
Jan 14, 2009
1,591
0
Atlanta, Georgia
The likely cause of shoulder or elbow pain when throwing overhand is due to the upper and lower body being out of sync. Any time a fielder gets their throwing arm to the "L" position prior to their front thigh rolling over, they are out of sync. It doesn't matter if the ball is facing CF or 3rd.

Go to any 12u or 14u tournament and you will see a very high percentage of fielders throwing from the "L" position. It's rampant. They take the ball out of their glove and go directly to the "L" position. When their front thigh rolls over to trigger the throw their arm is already externally rotated, which means they have used up most of the elasticity in their arm. Now you have a situation where the arm is attempting to throw a fairly heavy object from a dead stop with little elasticity preserved to absorb the stress created when the arm starts it's move forward. It's like stretching a rubber band to it's max, and then suddenly stretching it some more. Eventually something is going to snap.
 
Jul 25, 2011
3
0
Hi guys - sorry if there is a better 'dumbed down' thread for this

So this has been an interesting read for me. I coach a new 8U Team in Texas and I am trying to be a better coach. (My team is new in the sense that we have played 4 seasons, (2 per year) of 6U Girls Softball 'T Ball' and this group of girls played 2 seasons (1 year) of soccer together at 3 years old with me as their coach. They have played together for a while as a team.

I have had to teach purely basic, fundamental skills - like where first base is, how to hold a bat (not even to grip yet) - what it means to be a team mate. What a coach is - and isn't. I think that we, (myself and the parents) have done a good job of teaching sound fundamentals. We hit good - for 6 and 7 years old anyway. We make outs (that have not counted up to now) And we have lots of fun.

I am looking for a good set of basic fundamental throwing philosophies/drills that will prepare my girls properly - unfortunately I am finding that the latest/greatest trickles downward. It is my hope that a player from my Wild Thang team will one day end up with a guy like one of you as a coach. What do you want me to teach her? And how?

I see a lot of this is wrong or that is wrong, here and elsewhere, but I see little of THIS is HOW you should teach your 7/8 year old to throw. And I know nothing about scapular declination in a sub-orbital plane.... :eek:)

Turn-Point-Step & Throw anyone?

Coach Greg
 

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