Softball Throwing Mechanics

Chris O'Leary said:

This is dangerous and will lead to elbow and shoulder problems.




Nonsense.




I am the person who figured out this pattern, and I can tell you that trying to start the throw with the forearm horizontal is guaranteed to cause elbow and shoulder problems while the Inverted W or Inverted L only might cause elbow and shoulder problems.




That's fine, but getting the forearm vertical won't guarantee a pause (unless you teach that, which I don't).

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I knew you would be chiming in Chris. IMO what you prescribe is at the root of a lot of arm problems. I tried your approach for years and my daughter always had a sore arm. Too much slack in the system. I also do not teach the upside "W" position that some experts now believe causes arm injuries. As I recall, Strasburg is an upside down "W" pitcher, whereas Maddux did what Hodge and I teach. You may want to do some more research on what Hodge teaches.

Here is a clip of Maddux. His throw is triggered prior to foot plant, just like 99.9% of the guys reading this thread do. It's natural. The likely reason why Maddux never had arm problems is because of his arm position during the back swing, which remains horizontal to the ground.
YouTube - GREG MADDUX..

Wellphyt said:

I knew you would be chiming in Chris. IMO what you prescribe is at the root of a lot of arm problems. I tried your approach for years and my daughter always had a sore arm. Too much slack in the system.

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Slack is a meaningless notion.

What you are prescribing will cause the throwing arm to be late, which is a prescription for elbow and shoulder problems.

Wellphyt said:

Here is a clip of Maddux. His throw is triggered prior to foot plant, just like 99.9% of the guys reading this thread do. It's natural. The likely reason why Maddux never had arm problems is because of his arm position during the back swing, which remains horizontal to the ground.
YouTube - GREG MADDUX..

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Maddux's throwing side forearm is vertical, not horizontal, in Frame 101 when his front heel plants.



His throwing arm side elbow is also below the level of his shoulders.

best throwing info I have seen is Nyman and Wolforth and Hodge.

beware the oleary theories:

Chris O'Leary.... "Mechanics Analyst" Part 1 - Blogs - SETPRO Smart Power Training Forum

tom.guerry said:

best throwing info I have seen is Nyman and Wolforth and Hodge.

beware the oleary theories:

Chris O'Leary.... "Mechanics Analyst" Part 1 - Blogs - SETPRO Smart Power Training Forum

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Nyman is a velocity-obsessed fatalist whose ideas about mechanics have been largely abandoned by most, if not all, of his major league level followers due to injury problems.

P.S. It's a reflection of your character that you would attempt to discredit me by linking to what amounts to one long personal attack against me.

Here is a direct quote form Hodge:

"A lot of coaches think that the arm motion is tied to your foot strike, that it's when you land, that something important happens with your arm. But that's too late. The critical timing in the stride is not foot strike, it's just before foot strike, it's when you feel your thigh roll over to land. That's very important, I can't stress it enough."

Maybe one of the reasons a lot of girls do not throw correctly, is because coaches and parents are teaching an incorrect sequence. I know that was the case with me. I screwed my daughter's throw up starting in tee-ball.

Here are the four basic steps I teach now. These steps are from Hodge and accurately describe how I've thrown since I started playing baseball as a kid.

1. Get sideways to target.
2. Break Hands Correctly - Palms down, elbows flexed, arms close to horizontal to the ground.
3. When stride leg rolls over to land, bring throwing arm and head together.
4. Land on a flexed front leg.

Yes, the throwing arm has to get up with the elbow bent roughly 90 degrees to throw the ball. However IMO that position is a no teach. IMO, teaching girls to get into that position will prevent them from developing a good sequence.

The critical part of the sequence is when the front leg rolls over prior to foot plant. The girls need to understand the relationship between the front leg and the throwing arm.

If you're a guy and played baseball beyond little league, the odds are that your throw is triggered when your front leg rolls over to land. It's automatic to most of us guys. When the front leg rolls over, your throwing arm forearm automatically goes from horizontal to vertical. In technical terms, when the front leg externally rotates to land, the arms externally rotate to stay in sync.

Looks like Lincecum gets the elbows high.

I guess he's just a "freak"

Wellphyt said:

Here is a direct quote form Hodge:

"A lot of coaches think that the arm motion is tied to your foot strike, that it's when you land, that something important happens with your arm. But that's too late. The critical timing in the stride is not foot strike, it's just before foot strike, it's when you feel your thigh roll over to land. That's very important, I can't stress it enough."

Maybe one of the reasons a lot of girls do not throw correctly, is because coaches and parents are teaching an incorrect sequence. I know that was the case with me. I screwed my daughter's throw up starting in tee-ball.

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Well, I need to re-watch his stuff, but I think there was some critical stuff missing from the coil aspect of things with Hodge. And I believe that stuff to be upstream more than what he talks about. Good stuff. Way better than most. But still lacking.


I don't think coaches know the sequence. At all. Again, not a knock on them. Most are volunteers. When the kids come in from paid programs and they have no clue, that's when I get pissed.


You throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the ball (and usually have to throw it again.)

Tewks said:

I don't think coaches know the sequence. At all. Again, not a knock on them. Most are volunteers. When the kids come in from paid programs and they have no clue, that's when I get pissed.

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Hey Tewks, I'm in favor of accountability, but in my neck of the woods I don't know of (m)any 'paid programs' where any sort of pay goes to coaches. Myself, I will admit to sometimes receiving a piece of cheese, a few crackers, and a bottle of water between games and just coached the best I could to justify such tastey compensation.

I'm not sayin' its right, I'm just sayin' - GM

PS - is it tasty or tastey?

Greenmonsters said:

Hey Tewks, I'm in favor of accountability, but in my neck of the woods I don't know of (m)any 'paid programs' where any sort of pay goes to coaches. Myself, I will admit to sometimes receiving a piece of cheese, a few crackers, and a bottle of water between games and just coached the best I could to justify such tastey compensation.

I'm not sayin' its right, I'm just sayin' - GM

PS - is it tasty or tastey?

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I don't mean anything personal at all. Its not just youth coaches. I received basic throwing info when I was little, but moving up through high school, college and into pro ball, there was less and less instruction. There was never talk of sequence. Throwing was on your own and to warm up. Long toss programs consisted of the players choosing when they wanted to long toss. Some of the baseball and softball players that come to our programs have played in paid programs for years.... some for 5 or 6 years... with no throwing mechanics to speak of. I always ask my players what they have been taught. If they can't relay any relevant info, then they haven't been taught well. I'd be willing to be Howard's students can get very detailed about the intent behind any drill they do.

I think there is this big fear to overwhelm kids with too much info. I get that out of the way quick. They can handle it. Having the end goal of a good sequence makes the pieces logical, relevant... important to master. It actually makes everything easier to teach because the communication all has a bigger purpose. The kids can buy in and believe in what they are practicing. They can be deliberate with their work and rarely go through the motions.

tom.guerry said:

Looks like Lincecum gets the elbows high.

I guess he's just a "freak"

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His velocity is also down 5MPH since he came into the league.

That could be a harbinger of a shoulder problem.

It is utterly irresponsible of you to be pushing this garbage.

Anyone who reads this should know that this high elbow stuff CAN work, but it's the moral equivalent of running a car past the red line.

It works. For a while.

Then you blow the engine out and you're done.

That's the problem with the tricks and shortcuts that people like Tom and Nyman are pushing.