Difference in 10u softball and 10u baseball?

Gags said:

It's rare for a ball to be pulled @ 10U Rec. If it is, chances are there's already a runner on 1B anyway, so having a good 2B means the throw or underhand toss from the SS won't be treated like a live grenade.

In 10U, you're pitching from 35', not 45', which I believe is the standard LL baseball distance. Add in the bigger stride (well, maybe not right away - but probably by 12U), the pitcher is going to end up even closer to the plate. That's just too much distance to cover to make it to 1B in time to a) beat the runner and b)reach the bag, stop, turn around, and await the throw.

You're starting the same way I did - "No coach, no team". Here I am 5 years, and a combined 14 seasons of Rec/All-Stars/Travel later, and I'm still only at the 10U level with SOOOOO much more to learn. Really - thanks for volunteering, and welcome to the addiction known as DFP.

Lastly - coming from the "baseball world", and I'm surprised no one's mentioned this yet - don't let anyone tell you there's a difference b/w the baseball swing and the softball swing. A good swing is a good swing. Round ball, round bat. Same plate. Same strike zone. If they don't believe you, tell them "That's what Sue Enquist says". If they need to ask who she is, take two steps back, just in case their ignorance is contagious.

Good Luck!

Gags

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Our 10U rec has coach pitch relief. Girls pull the ball off coach all the time. But yeah, if it's girl pitch only then fewer balls go to third for sure.

CaCO3Girl said:

We will have to agree to disagree on that one.

I have seen HUGE, absolutely HUGE changes to athleticism once puberty hits. My son for example, yes he's a boy but the principle applies, always looked like he was running with an elephant AND a piano on his back. He took speed and agility, it didn't help. However, once his legs grew he was able to move them in a way he couldn't before. The training finally kicked in and man he flew!

Conversely, I've seen super fast kids slow to average speed. I've seen kids who couldn't move laterally able to use their new gangly arms to great effect....the fast kids become slow, the slow kids became fast, the great hitters became less than average, the great arm strength kids were passed by when others grew their adult muscles sooner...let's not even talk about the kids who used to be overweight and poof they are skinny...and vice versa. The puberty stick is a game changer for SURE!

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Arm strength and hitting are different animals. Arm strength does play a part in making a good SS (which is why my relative noodle arm was moved from SS to 2B in college), but it is less important in softball than it is baseball. Weight is a separate issue and while puberty may help boys lean out (it did for me) it typically goes the opposite way for girls...I am not saying there are not diamonds in the rough but again, I would venture a guess that most D1 SS played SS at the 10U level...

Eric F said:

A mistake often made by parents of young players is over-estimating the permanence of the current situation. I saw parent freak-outs over this issue more than a few times. I have also talked my DW off that ledge more times than I can count. Teams change, players change, players improve in skill level, players grow and get stronger. As those things happen, a decent coach will evaluate what is the most effective way to fit together the puzzle pieces of the team for the current situation. What was an effective approach in 10U rec ball will not be equally effective in 10U TB - and certainly not 12U TB - as you get a higher percentage of players with both strong arms and good gloves, and hitters who can pull the ball. The game develops along with the players. As a coach, I never positioned players by what I thought they might be doing in a year or two. I'm not sure who would even do that. I put the team together the best I could for the game they were playing right now, and the near future, with the players I had available to me at that time.

When my DD moved to TB in 10U, her goal was to be the #1 C. IMO, she was better than the team's current #1 C at the time, but she turned out to be #3 for playing time behind the plate. My DD was put at 3B for her primary position. I certainly had moments of frustration, irritated that my kid wasn't getting more time behind the plate. In talking with the HC about the issue, I learned that it wasn't really about my kid's skills behind the plate, but rather a problem of where else to put the #1 C. For the team as a whole, the defensive scenario was best with my DD at 3B. At the end of the 10U summer season, the #1 C decided she didn't love softball any more, and quit the sport entirely. The team also added other players that filled the spot at 3B, freeing up my DD to truly earn her spot as the #1 C.

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My experience coaching is that the parents simply don't/can't/won't see the game as a team. They see it as "where is my daughter playing". Combine that with their notions of where their daughter should be playing and you get some not-so-fun parent conversations.

But yes, if little Sally must play SS, then where does the SS play. And who then does that bump out of position. And yes, Sally may be the best SS on the team but that doesn't necessarily mean the team is at its best with Sally at SS.

The other thing I find slightly comical is when the parent says "She should be playing SS. She loves SS." Then I later ask the girl where she wants to play, and the answer is something else.

uncdrew said:

Combine that with their notions of where their daughter should be playing and you get some not-so-fun parent conversations.

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Most parents don't know their rear from their elbow with regards to evaluating talent.

uncdrew said:

And yes, Sally may be the best SS on the team but that doesn't necessarily mean the team is at its best with Sally at SS.

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This logic typically only works at 10U and below...show me a 12U+ team where their best SS is playing somewhere else and I will
show you a lousy team(unless she is also their best pitcher/catcher..). If you have two kids who are fairly close in SS, with one
being slightly better than the other, than it is hard to believe that the one who is slightly worse would be significantly worse
at another position than the better SS in order to justify playing the worse SS at SS.

MikeP said:

Not trying to hijack the op but our experience seems to have been different than most in regards to where the ball is hit. Through two seasons of 8u travel, all stars and a fall season of 10u travel we have seen a ton of balls hit to the left side. My dd has been playing 3rd because she has always been the best fielder, quick and has a good arm. If 10 balls are hit to 3rd in a game I would bank on 9 outs. It seems like her and ss get all the action in the infield. Our ss, who we don't have this spring dang it, had a solid glove but was unbelievably quick laterally. We kind of lived on outs from that side of the field. Everyone's experiences are different and maybe it will change this season for us as well.

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Your daughter and mine sound alike. Mine is pretty darn slow, but really quick. Amazing reflexes and a strong arm. Does quite well at 3B and makes tons of outs because we've spent hours working on that throw to first and footwork. In 10U travel a lot of balls hit to 3B against us, in part because our pitching is slower than average for our tournaments.

pattar said:

Arm strength and hitting are different animals. Arm strength does play a part in making a good SS (which is why my relative noodle arm was moved from SS to 2B in college), but it is less important in softball than it is baseball. Weight is a separate issue and while puberty may help boys lean out (it did for me) it typically goes the opposite way for girls...I am not saying there are not diamonds in the rough but again, I would venture a guess that most D1 SS played SS at the 10U level...

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I hear what you are saying, and would agree if I were talking about travel ball. I'm not. I've got ten 9/10 year olds....some of which are 60 pounds sopping wet. They may be spry and agile but if they can't get the ball over to first due to their arm strength, they can't play SS, no matter how well they stop the ball. My philosophy is, 1 ball hit, the whole team moves...I'll just have to make sure left field has a very good arm for whatever gets past the not so agile SS...then again, I may be blessed with 2 awesome MIF's...only time will tell.

MikeP said:

Not trying to hijack the op but our experience seems to have been different than most in regards to where the ball is hit. Through two seasons of 8u travel, all stars and a fall season of 10u travel we have seen a ton of balls hit to the left side. My dd has been playing 3rd because she has always been the best fielder, quick and has a good arm. If 10 balls are hit to 3rd in a game I would bank on 9 outs. It seems like her and ss get all the action in the infield. Our ss, who we don't have this spring dang it, had a solid glove but was unbelievably quick laterally. We kind of lived on outs from that side of the field. Everyone's experiences are different and maybe it will change this season for us as well.

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Travel at even 8U level is a different animal.

10U Travel/all stars/whatever is different than pure 10U rec softball with lots of first time players and only rec-players. In 10U rec you generally don't have the depth of actual experienced players to consistently make the 3B/SS to 1B out unless you have lots of travel players. If you do - great - but most rec teams don't. And if you are doing rec ball right you are moving players around the field into new positions every inning so even if you have SOME depth, often your depth wont be in the optimal spot.

So I want to make sure the easy right-side outs get made. I honestly don't care about runs being scored against us in rec (especially since most rec rules maximise it at 5 an inning anyway) - I want 3 outs as fast I can so we can go bat. The less time we are actually fielding, the less time things can go REALLY wrong.

I have had many a rec team where any out from the left side I just considered bonus outs. I am not saying you don't try to make the outs - after all you are teaching the game - but I am saying that I want to minimize the right side 100% out plays happening. If that easy out hit to 2B doesn't get made, that is where a lot of big innings come from. When the 3B or SS in rec airmails the throw to 1B, everyone expects that and no one really reacts - it is rec. But when you don't make the 10' throw from 2B to 1B for an easy out - that can be a catalyst for things going downhill fast.

Also balls being HIT to the left side are different than OUTS made from the left side. And again - travel versus rec you are going to see a lot of differences.

As for college players positions translating from 10U or even 12U. Except for the very, very few special talents - what you see in 10U and 12U has very limited projection on who that player will be in even 16U. One of our girls was always a 2B/1B is travel HS... played every inning of her entire D1 college career at SS. Surprised the hell out of everyone (including her). You just never know. If you are not preparing your DD to play where asked, then you are not doing your job. At 16U my DD regularly plays across the infield - everything but catcher. Her probably college coach LOVES that - it is like recruiting 3 players for them.

pattar said:

Most parents don't know their rear from their elbow with regards to evaluating talent.


This logic typically only works at 10U and below...show me a 12U+ team where their best SS is playing somewhere else and I will
show you a lousy team(unless she is also their best pitcher/catcher..). If you have two kids who are fairly close in SS, with one
being slightly better than the other, than it is hard to believe that the one who is slightly worse would be significantly worse
at another position than the better SS in order to justify playing the worse SS at SS.

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Yes, it certainly has to shake out over time.

marriard said:

One of our girls was always a 2B/1B is travel HS... played every inning of her entire D1 college career at SS .

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Interesting..did the SS's on those teams where she played 2B/1B play in college and if they did what position?

Maybe the coach's on the TB/HS teams didn't know how to evaluate SS talent..

marriard said:

Travel at even 8U level is a different animal.

10U Travel/all stars/whatever is different than pure 10U rec softball with lots of first time players and only rec-players. In 10U rec you generally don't have the depth of actual experienced players to consistently make the 3B/SS to 1B out unless you have lots of travel players. If you do - great - but most rec teams don't. And if you are doing rec ball right you are moving players around the field into new positions every inning so even if you have SOME depth, often your depth wont be in the optimal spot.

So I want to make sure the easy right-side outs get made. I honestly don't care about runs being scored against us in rec (especially since most rec rules maximise it at 5 an inning anyway) - I want 3 outs as fast I can so we can go bat. The less time we are actually fielding, the less time things can go REALLY wrong.

I have had many a rec team where any out from the left side I just considered bonus outs. I am not saying you don't try to make the outs - after all you are teaching the game - but I am saying that I want to minimize the right side 100% out plays happening. If that easy out hit to 2B doesn't get made, that is where a lot of big innings come from. When the 3B or SS in rec airmails the throw to 1B, everyone expects that and no one really reacts - it is rec. But when you don't make the 10' throw from 2B to 1B for an easy out - that can be a catalyst for things going downhill fast.

Also balls being HIT to the left side are different than OUTS made from the left side. And again - travel versus rec you are going to see a lot of differences.

As for college players positions translating from 10U or even 12U. Except for the very, very few special talents - what you see in 10U and 12U has very limited projection on who that player will be in even 16U. One of our girls was always a 2B/1B is travel HS... played every inning of her entire D1 college career at SS. Surprised the hell out of everyone (including her). You just never know. If you are not preparing your DD to play where asked, then you are not doing your job. At 16U my DD regularly plays across the infield - everything but catcher. Her probably college coach LOVES that - it is like recruiting 3 players for them.

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Please elaborate on the bolded above.

Are you suggesting I move 1B to 3B, SS to 2B, or are you saying rotate all 10 spots? (and why are there 10...I'm at a loss why 9 spots won't suffice)