Crazy problem, need advice

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Sep 23, 2018
61
8
So I will try to sum up this crazy problem:

We started a new 10u TB softball team this fall. We held tryouts during the summer and filled our team. We had 3 girls that were very close to making the team, but not quite ready. I will call them A, B, C. The Dad of A offered to start a 2nd team (team 2). He had experience being a HC for a few years. He asked if we could help him get it started and if he could use our team name, and piggyback on all of the startup efforts we had already completed. Player A, B, C all said they were in, and through a few connections, we quickly added 4 more players (players D,E,F,G). All players paid their dues ($280) for the fall (few tournaments), but they paid the dues to me since I was helping get things started and I had a PayPal account. At this time, we ordered uniforms, paid league dues, etc. We were quite confident in finding 3-4 more players within 30 days. A few days later, player B and C quit. They claimed that the team wasn't good enough and they were done. That caused the entire team to collapse and fold. I was able to get about 65-70% of the money refunded for items purchased. I gave the refund amount to the Dad/Coach to allocate back to the players. He decided to pay back players D,E,F,G 100% of their money since the team folding was not their fault, and he refunded back A (his daughter) some money as well. He elected to not pay back player B or C anything since they quit the team and the agreement they signed says "no refunds".

Fast forward a few weeks, and player B and C are threatening ME with a small claims lawsuit, and have already filed a claim with PayPal for the full amount. They are also threatening to file a complaint with our league, and all softball governing bodies unless I pay them back $175 each. Paying them anything at this point would be coming directly out of my pocket.

So....do I:

1. Pay the money and walk away? I would be out at least $350 on a team that I was only helping.
2. Answer the claim with PayPal and see if I win? If I win I pay nothing, but if I lose I pay it all.
3. If I win the PayPal claim, they will most likely still proceed with small claims where I could lose full amount of payment (plus court costs).
4. Any downside to them reporting me to local league, and governing bodies?

Please help. The easy thing to do is pay the money, but I am already down over $1k on MY team, and I don't feel this is fair or just. The contract they signed said "no refunds" is that ok?
 
Last edited:
Apr 30, 2018
349
43
As with most things it is going to come down to the wording of the contract that was signed. The cost to hire a lawyer to review it and give you an opinion is probably going to be as much as just paying them. Maybe there is a lawyer on here that would look at for free or a nominal fee. If you feel that the contract was pretty clear, then I would fight it with PayPal. Worst case you lose and have to pay them. I don't see them taking you to small claims. Would cost them around $100-150 depending on what your courts charge. I believe they would each have to file separately too.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
Jun 12, 2015
3,848
83
When DH head coached we had a player leave after making an initial spring payment. The dad was quite upset to not get a refund, but that money was spent on winter workouts his daughter attended or had the opportunity to attend and chose not to. He'd signed a contract that stated no refunds. Sorry, but we weren't going to come out of pocket because they didn't honor a commitment. I can see both sides, I get being upset. But they need to accept that this was their fault and the other players shouldn't be penalized because those two chose to bail. They went to the head of the org, but there wasn't anything he could do. We'd switched orgs anyway at that point, and the contract with our team, not the organization.

I'd fight it. If they sent the money friends & family to avoid the fees, they can't actually file a PayPal claim I don't think. PayPal seems to usually go with the buyer but there's no harm in trying to fight it. Worst case, they go against you and maybe you and the other coach could split the difference. If the story is how you told it, it's hard to imagine them going against you though.
 
Mar 23, 2014
621
18
SoCal
The issue you might face is..... if all players (their parents) signed the same contract but some received a refund - whole or in part- then B and C might have a claim. Not saying it’s right - just saying it’s a possibility
 
Apr 30, 2018
349
43
I would fight it. They might win due to the "necessary to maintain the program" language since the program has cancelled. Then again they were the reason it was cancelled. The refund of the other players shouldn't be an issue since you cancelled on them. These two players cancelled on you so fight it.
"These fees are necessary to maintain the program and are not refundable."

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
Aug 12, 2014
644
43
I would fight it. They might win due to the "necessary to maintain the program" language since the program has cancelled. Then again they were the reason it was cancelled. The refund of the other players shouldn't be an issue since you cancelled on them. These two players cancelled on you so fight it.

This. They signed a contract stating "no refunds" and bailed. Unless there is some reason that we don't know about other than they didn't think the team was good enough, they don't deserve a refund if the money isn't there.
 

Strike2

Allergic to BS
Nov 14, 2014
2,044
113
It's not the first time I've seen a new team with not enough players collapse before they could get going. In this game, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I hate to say it, but part of this was your fault. You had seven players, but were ordering uniforms and paying league fees? A better plan for the Fall would have been practices and scrimmages with the possibility of a late-Fall tournament if things were looking good. You could have purchased a simple, inexpensive, and quickly produced jersey and had them wear off-the-shelf pants and socks bought from the local sporting goods store.

I guess I'd take away some lessons:

1. Don't spend money for uniforms and league fees unless you have a stable and actively-practicing roster.

2. Don't use Paypal...make them write a check or give cash. One less thing to fight if a dispute arises over money.

3. For parents, don't hand over some big chunk of money to some guy without some indication that the team is viable.

You might have some sort of contract, but Paypal probably forces you to return at least a portion. I doubt you'll see small claims court. IMO, the right thing is for you to eat the cost of those uniforms and keep them for spares for your 10U team. The money everyone paid should be fully refunded less the cost of anything else truly non-refundable. I can see making the flakes eat more, if not all, of the nonrefundable loss, but giving them back nothing isn't the right move for your reputation going forward.
 
Apr 6, 2017
328
28
If paypal is anything like ebay I'd guess they will get the money right back. Small claims court might be on your side.
Sounds like a hassle. Call and talk to them. To bad your names mixed up with the paypal.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
42,830
Messages
679,474
Members
21,443
Latest member
sstop28
Top