PGF vs. ASA

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sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,132
113
Dallas, Texas
How did the PGF become the premier national tournament?

The ASA Gold is going on in Plano. There are a lot of good teams, but it seems to have mostly Texas teams...doesn't seem to be a lot of west coast teams.
 
Nov 25, 2012
1,437
83
USA
As I just got home from a 8-7 loss in bracket play in Plano while 105 degrees I was wondering if the West Coast would be a better fit in July :) We only have a couple west coast teams in 16U and a couple from the east coast and the rest are in the middle of the country. More Texas than anything but still a decent showing from multiple states.

Thinking Huntington Beach sounds appealing about now but not the reason as ASA moves around every year. I personally think there are too many different circuits fighting for the dollar but as the sport grows I guess so will the options.
 
Jan 22, 2011
1,610
113
No offense Sluggers, but what I heard is California teams got tired of having to travel to places like Normal, IL and have 1/3rd of the teams they play be from California. Why not stay in California to play California teams? Thus the PGF was born.

ASA was pretty arrogant when the California teams were expressing their concerns as well, from what I heard.
 
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May 24, 2013
12,461
113
So Cal
No offense Sluggers, but what I heard is California teams got tired of having to travel to places like Normal, Ill and have 1/3rd of the teams they play be from California. Why not stay in California to play California teams? Thus the PGF was born.

As I understand it, this pretty much sums it up.

Currently, ASA/USA is - by far - the dominant org for rec ball in CA. However, for TB, ASA/USA "A" events are not very well attended, and essentially ignored by the better teams. TCS and PGF always draw big fields.
 
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Oct 5, 2015
91
18
Location, Location, Location

Huntington Beach wins out over Midland, Moline or, in this case, Plano.

Of course, that is only part of the equation. I think folks got fed up with ASA and I think that will similarly happen with PGF. The large number or pre and post-qualifying invites that are granted will lead to a lot of Customer Satisfaction issues that could steer many in another direction.
 
Dec 2, 2013
3,409
113
Texas
Why not stay in California to play California teams? Thus the PGF was born.

Same problem Texas team have. Why go to TCS Fireworks to play the same teams you just played the week before? That's why I like Boulder IDT. Not a whole lot of Texas teams!! I have heard from several high ranked Texas teams that they will no longer go to PGF as they feel it has become a money grab. At PGF you will see California teams stuff 22 players in a dugout while other teams show up with 15 players. They get to sleep in their own beds and don't have to convince the parents to pay for travel. 6 pitchers and 8 pinch runners with fresh legs.

Btw: JO Cup has replaced ASA Gold as the tournament of choice for USA Softball Nationals. You don't really see the high caliber teams at ASA Gold. I have been watching some of the streamed games.
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
Having attended the ASA General Council meetings from 2002-2013, IMO the PGF was more of "taking our bat and ball and going home" since the general council would not abandon their nationwide system to placate the CA organizations. Like I said, just an opinion
 
Jan 22, 2011
1,610
113
Having attended the ASA General Council meetings from 2002-2013, IMO the PGF was more of "taking our bat and ball and going home" since the general council would not abandon their nationwide system to placate the CA organizations. Like I said, just an opinion

I don't disagree. I've heard some rumblings of dissatisfaction in Northern California with PGF, so there is room for USA/ASA to take back market share.

As someone on the board of an ASA rec league from 2008-2016, what I saw was folks living in Silicon Valley wondering 2007-2011 or so, why USSSA had such a nice website with useful information about tournaments and teams, while ASA had nothing comparable. tournamentusa is something, but USA doesn't force tournament directors to use and update it.

Around us, most of the local "A" tournaments are really USSSA open tournaments. You need to travel to Salinas or the Central Valley for PGF or most USA "A" tournaments.
 
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Sep 17, 2009
1,637
83
Sluggers I believe you are from Chicago so you might be curious -- this area is still a mix, with things probably leaning back to PGF this year led by Bandits, Sparks, Chill. The Batbusters just licensed locally as well for next year and are focused on PGF (as have the Cheetahs been local for the past few too). Some teams are still loyal to ASA locally, especially those that run tournaments like the Lightning with Radtke (and Hawks and Silverhawks, though I think that's changing too). Dave Betcher (formerly a coach for Homer Hawks) runs a strong Midwest PGF program with great competitive and exposure tournaments including one that runs directly against ASA Metros, which used to be the big summer event until the past few years. He also runs a year-end 'Midwest Championship' in Peoria that is really strong alternative to traditional Nationals. Not sure how many Chicago teams were down in Texas?
 
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JAD

Feb 20, 2012
8,231
38
Georgia
ASA kept insisting on hosting their tournament in EBF locations and finally a bunch of CA teams got sick and tired of going to Normal, IL, Salem, VA and Plano, TX so they decided to host their own tournament in Huntington Beach, CA, as the rest as they say "is history"!
 

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