PGF vs. ASA

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MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
ASA kept insisting on hosting their tournament in EBF locations and finally a bunch of CA teams got sick and tired of going to Normal, IL, Salem, VA and Plano, TX so they decided to host their own tournament in Huntington Beach, CA, as the rest as they say "is history"!


Some of that was of their own doing. At that time and still at certain levels, ASA accepts bids for most national tournaments. The better of the bids would host the tournament. For as big as CA was especially when it comes to softball, I was surprised there were not more bids from the CA locations. You cannot win if you do not play. The general counsel voted on USA national locations, while only regional reps would vote on the location of the ASA national tournaments taking place in their section of the country. Granted, many times these tournaments would be allocated through mutual agreements in meetings of those representatives to avoid a bidding war and higher fees. Those who bid still had to meet the specifications any other national was.

One of the major complaints I never understood was that many of these places did not have an amusement park, beaches or some other high-level form of entertainment. I guess it was sort of silly to think that when a team traveled to a national tournament, the focus should be on playing ball.
 

JAD

Feb 20, 2012
8,231
38
Georgia
Some of that was of their own doing. At that time and still at certain levels, ASA accepts bids for most national tournaments. The better of the bids would host the tournament. For as big as CA was especially when it comes to softball, I was surprised there were not more bids from the CA locations. You cannot win if you do not play. The general counsel voted on USA national locations, while only regional reps would vote on the location of the ASA national tournaments taking place in their section of the country. Granted, many times these tournaments would be allocated through mutual agreements in meetings of those representatives to avoid a bidding war and higher fees. Those who bid still had to meet the specifications any other national was.

One of the major complaints I never understood was that many of these places did not have an amusement park, beaches or some other high-level form of entertainment. I guess it was sort of silly to think that when a team traveled to a national tournament, the focus should be on playing ball.

ASA wants to maximize profits, which is why they keep choosing bids from EBF locations...CA is a popular tourist destination and does not need softball to attract visitors.

When my DD was coming through the age groups a berth to ASA Nationals was coveted. Now with PGF, USA Elite, USSSA and TC, I imagine the competition at ASA Nationals is watered down and does not mean nearly as much as it used to.
 
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marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,312
113
Florida
Look the reality is that ASA/USA Softball is archaic and had been living without real competition for years. They got to leverage the fact they have the USA National Team and the Olympics to wave around and basically tell the top talent that if you don't come here, no Olympic Dream for you.

Well that went away. More nimble orgs have come in and nibbled away and in some cases hammered away at them for years. They have ignored the competition mostly and then they got their 'Olympics' back so still see no reason to change. In particular PGF is grinding them from the top end and USSSA is grinding them from the bottom. Like most companies that are not used to competition, they are very slow to react and understand the new realities of their market.

Long term USSSA is their biggest threat. They are massively funded and are slowly but surely taking over the younger age groups state-by-state. When you have money and the massive numbers of younger age groups - and also multiple sports coverage - you are a threat. Just think what it cost USSSA to build their Space Coast location. That is a massive investment.

PGF has hired some good people in some areas and with aggressive people they have basically made themselves more attractive to the top age teams. In Florida today - after less than a year - the PGF director has made it so I would much rather take our team to a PGF tournament than an ASA one. Think about that - LESS than a year to hurt the established ASA/USA Softball tournaments because someone was willing to put the work in and listen to what teams were looking for.
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,133
113
Dallas, Texas
National organizations are always fun...the people who really make fastpitch fun and enjoyable are on the ball fields hitting an insane number of grounders, handling crazy parents, and making sure there is enough ice to handle any "ouchies". The bozos with the national organizations seem to be focused on a way to squeeze a few more bucks out of the game.

Sometimes, I think the people running the PGF, ASA, NSA, USSSA and the NCAA don't give two hoots about the game or the kids.
 
Last edited:
Nov 3, 2012
480
16
I think one fair thing to say is that there is more competition for the national tournaments, and as a result all of them are more watered down. Things have evolved and each org offers something different.

PGF still probably is the toughest tournament, mostly due to the fact that the best travel softball occurs on the west coast. And the PGF gets the best west coast teams along with the handful of better national teams. But again PGF is more than 50% west coast teams, and there are a lot of teams that don't play PGF or go to nationals. The west coach beach is also a draw and its has multiple fun destination to at least attract some teams from around the country.

We went to the USA Select Elite Nationals in Kansas City. This tournament brings some good competition, OC batbusters come out and some Bandits teams go and has the best teams in the Midwest and good south representation. I would say their comp level is much better than ASA. It also has some fun nuances, as they bring in a WPF game. Also, the central location in a major city helps something. Yes, kind of hot and Kansas City is not the best vacation spot, but it has a good amusement park, decent restaurants, some cool museums and a major airport. USA Select Elite is catching up with PGF. I wouldn't be surprised to see it surpass or be equal in the near future.

ASA is not even close to what it used to be. And also, ASA needs to hold their nationals in major metropolitan city or at least a close to a tourist location. Who wants to got to Plano, TX in the middle of July. Never been there, but I but its hot as ?? What is there to do in Plano?

Saw somebody mention that you go to Nationals to just play softball. Come on, these national tournaments are the family vacation for most people. Yes, I want my DD to be focused, but lets also have fun and enjoy it. Generally, you still have time to do something fun and entertaining. Does the fact she went to the beach or a park one afternoon mean shes going to play bad the next game? I think the better the experience overall, the less likely shes going to get burned out. I agree on early poster, I don't envision my family vacation in Normal, IL or Plano, TX in the mid summer.
 
Last edited:
Aug 19, 2015
1,118
113
Atlanta, GA
I think one fair thing to say is that there is more competition for the national tournaments, and as a result all of them are more watered down. Things have evolved and each org offers something different.

PGF still probably is the toughest tournament, mostly due to the fact that the best travel softball occurs on the west coast. And the PGF gets the best west coast teams along with the handful of better national teams. But again PGF is more than 50% west coast teams, and there are a lot of teams that don't play PGF or go to nationals. The west coach beach is also a draw and its has multiple fun destination to at least attract some teams from around the country.

We went to the USA Select Elite Nationals in Kansas City. This tournament brings some good competition, OC batbusters come out and some Bandits teams go and has the best teams in the Midwest and good south representation. I would say their comp level is much better than ASA. It also has some fun nuances, as they bring in a WPF game. Also, the central location in a major city helps something. Yes, kind of hot and Kansas City is not the best vacation spot, but it has a good amusement park, decent restaurants and a major airport. USA Select Elite is catching up with PGF. I wouldn't be surprised to see it surpass or be equal in the near future.

ASA is not even close to what it used to be. And also, ASA needs to hold their nationals in major metropolitan city or at least a close to a tourist location. Who wants to got to Plano, TX in the middle of July. Never been there, but I but its hot as ?? What is there to do in Plano?

Saw somebody mention that you go to Nationals to just play softball. Come on, these national tournaments are the family vacation for most people. Yes, I want my DD to be focused, but lets also have fun and enjoy it. Generally, you still have time to do something fun and entertaining. Does the fact she went to the beach or a park one afternoon mean shes going to play bad the next game. I think the better the experience overall, the less likely shes going to get burned out. I agree on early poster, I don't envision my family vacation in Normal, IL or Plano, TX in the mid summer.

Especially when you're only playing 1 or 2 games per day stretched out over 5-6 days. That's EXPENSIVE. And to sit around in your hotel room twiddling your thumbs because it's 105 degrees outside and there's nothing to go do or see when you're not playing is enough to put the most enthusiastic player in a bad mood. Plus it's nice to have dining options other than Applebee's or Ruby Tuesday.
 

jjr

Jun 13, 2017
69
8
ASA is not even close to what it used to be. And also, ASA needs to hold their nationals in major metropolitan city or at least a close to a tourist location. Who wants to got to Plano, TX in the middle of July. Never been there, but I but its hot as ?? What is there to do in Plano?

lol, I keep seeing everyone talking about how bad Plano is. It really isn't that bad. Dallas isn't too far away, and there are many other budding cities that give you plenty to do near there. Plano is actually becoming one of the bigger cities in the area because of everything being developed around there. There are waterparks, amusement parks, lakes, and a bunch of other entertainment venues. It really isn't in the middle of nowhere like Normal or Midland.

But I will agree, who in their right mind holds nationals in Texas in the third week of JULY. That's usually when we get our hottest weather so not sure who the genius was on that one. It's going to hit a high of 108 today (maybe higher?) so I feel for those girls playing in this heat.
 
Nov 3, 2012
480
16
lol, I keep seeing everyone talking about how bad Plano is. It really isn't that bad. Dallas isn't too far away, and there are many other budding cities that give you plenty to do near there. Plano is actually becoming one of the bigger cities in the area because of everything being developed around there. There are waterparks, amusement parks, lakes, and a bunch of other entertainment venues. It really isn't in the middle of nowhere like Normal or Midland.

But I will agree, who in their right mind holds nationals in Texas in the third week of JULY. That's usually when we get our hottest weather so not sure who the genius was on that one. It's going to hit a high of 108 today (maybe higher?) so I feel for those girls playing in this heat.

I guess Plano really is in the greater Dallas/Ft Worth area. I should of researched my geography before making that point. But crazy hot none the less.
 
Feb 28, 2015
307
28
Heatbox
Especially when you're only playing 1 or 2 games per day stretched out over 5-6 days. That's EXPENSIVE. And to sit around in your hotel room twiddling your thumbs because it's 105 degrees outside and there's nothing to go do or see when you're not playing is enough to put the most enthusiastic player in a bad mood. Plus it's nice to have dining options other than Applebee's or Ruby Tuesday.

We were in KC playing 16's. Kind of glad we lost our 3rd game of Thursday because if we would of won, it was 6 games Friday up through the losers bracket (provided we kept winning). That's insane!!! Maybe 3 or 4 games but not 6 in one day in that kind of temps. Umpires were going down just the first couple days there.
 
Aug 19, 2015
1,118
113
Atlanta, GA
We were in KC playing 16's. Kind of glad we lost our 3rd game of Thursday because if we would of won, it was 6 games Friday up through the losers bracket (provided we kept winning). That's insane!!! Maybe 3 or 4 games but not 6 in one day in that kind of temps. Umpires were going down just the first couple days there.

Yeah, it's usually the pool game rounds when you'll have like an 8 AM game and a 4 PM game. So, what do you do in between when you're away from home? Coaches don't want the girls going crazy at some amusement park or swimming and wearing themselves out in the heat, so back to the hotel room to twiddle your thumbs after you hit Subway or whatever.
 

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