Frustration with high school ball

Legendsmom · Feb 25, 2018

CoachJD said:
It sounds to me like he was trying to motivate her, but just approached it in an awful way for your DD.

I see a scenario where she struggled to get out of the inning (even if it wasn't all her fault), and he thought he needed to go with a tough love approach. He was trying to fire her up with the "grow up" line. I can see how that could work. There are players out there who need that. Your DD is not that type of player (I never was, either, so I get it). It's on the coach to figure out the best way to handle her when she's not playing well.

Hopefully he realized his approach was wrong for her and he'll try something new next time. Of course, it's possible this is the only approach he knows, and in that case, it could be a long season. I'd still encourage you to have her stick it out. Being told to grow up doesn't meet my standard of abuse or belittling.

I should also add that the conversation was the coach, the pitcher, and the catcher. He didn't berate her in front of the team. You say he humiliated her on the field, but how did he do that if he had what amounted to a private conversation that nobody else could hear? In fact, it sounds like he went out of his way to not do that while still delivering the message. So again, that tough love approach isn't the right one for your daughter, but based on this story alone, I'm not sure I'd lump this coach in with the real jerks out there.

Thank you for that perspective. You may be right and she did do better and get out of the inning after that exchange. The tears didn’t come until later when she was alone with me. I guess the momma bear came out in me, and I still think it could have been handled better. She acknowledges she could have done better, I wasn’t making excuses for her. A big part of her problem is he makes her nervous and intimidates her.. I would also like to add that he wasn’t calling anything but fastball even though her changeup is her best pitch. That made it that much harder to get batters out.

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Sparky Guy · Feb 25, 2018

During my DD's last two seasons in college she had a Jekyll and Hyde defense. When she was in the circle the defense would step up and make some really good plays for her. They made the routine plays as well.

When the #2 was in the circle the defense played tight without being aggressive making an exceptional amount of fielding errors. The reason. The #2 pitcher gave up A LOT of very hard hit balls. At the college level that's not an excuse, but it does happen and defense should make the plays. The defense was on their heels trying to catch bullets hit at them. If she got 2 K's in a game that was an exceptional game for the #2. The #2 would give up 5+ runs before the coach would put my DD in the game knowing my DD usually shut the other teams down giving them a chance to maybe score some runs and get back into the game. Most times it didn't happen. The opposing team didn't score any more runs, but neither did the DD's team.

Again, these are things that don't show up in the stats, but are part of the game. My DD would average 7 - 10K's a game with a lot of flyball's and popups. She had a really good riseball. The #2 was a drop ball pitcher with fair movement and maybe an occasional 60 mph pitch on a good day.

What you failed to mention was how many errors the defense made with the other pitcher in the circle? That may be what the coach was looking at.

CoachJD · Feb 25, 2018

Legendsmom said:
Thank you for that perspective. You may be right and she did do better and get out of the inning after that exchange. The tears didn’t come until later when she was alone with me. I guess the momma bear came out in me, and I still think it could have been handled better. She acknowledges she could have done better, I wasn’t making excuses for her. A big part of her problem is he makes her nervous and intimidates her.. I would also like to add that he wasn’t calling anything but fastball even though her changeup is her best pitch. That made it that much harder to get batters out.

I get it. And like I said, I totally understand being the type of player who does not react well to this type of coach. I'm not wired to react to that style of coaching in a positive way, and it appears your DD isn't either. That's OK. It's the coach's job to figure out the best way to reach her.

It's not good if he intimidates her. What's unclear if he's trying to do that or if it's a byproduct of the conflict of styles. If it's the former, I'd say get away from the coach. If it's the latter, then this is an opportunity to figure out how to work with conflicting styles.

As for the pitch calling, that seems like a perfect chance for your daughter to talk to him. If she asks the coach to work the change in a little more, you'll get an idea of how easy he'll be to work with.

Legendsmom · Feb 25, 2018

Sparky Guy said:
During my DD's last two seasons in college she had a Jekyll and Hyde defense. When she was in the circle the defense would step up and make some really good plays for her. They made the routine plays as well.

When the #2 was in the circle the defense played tight without being aggressive making an exceptional amount of fielding errors. The reason. The #2 pitcher gave up A LOT of very hard hit balls. At the college level that's not an excuse, but it does happen and defense should make the plays. The defense was on their heels trying to catch bullets hit at them. If she got 2 K's in a game that was an exceptional game for the #2. The #2 would give up 5+ runs before the coach would put my DD in the game knowing my DD usually shut the other teams down giving them a chance to maybe score some runs and get back into the game. Most times it didn't happen. The opposing team didn't score any more runs, but neither did the DD's team.

Again, these are things that don't show up in the stats, but are part of the game. My DD would average 7 - 10K's a game with a lot of flyball's and popups. She had a really good riseball. The #2 was a drop ball pitcher with fair movement and maybe an occasional 60 mph pitch on a good day.

What you failed to mention was how many errors the defense made with the other pitcher in the circle? That may be what the coach was looking at.

The other pitcher had her fair amount of mistakes also. She had walked 3 batters in a row just the previous inning. My dd doesn’t normally have hard hit balls. She usually gets grounders and pop ups. The reason there were more errors is because the coach decided to pull some players and let some girls on the bench play because we had a 15-5 lead on the other team. With back up players there was bound to be more errors. The errors were fairly routine plays. A ground ball to 2nd that was overthrown to 1st. To routine popflys that were misjudged and dropped. Just to clarify, my dd wasn’t placing blame on the defense. My only issue was how the coach handled the situation.

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riseball · Feb 25, 2018

This is an interesting time of year for me as the pitchers I work with are playing HS ball and due to logistics we do not get together much. They check in regularly and I could care less about stats or scores. I want to know what is working and how they are throwing. As to the games it is all about being effective. As with any time in the circle they focus on providing an opportunity for their defense to make plays resulting in outs. You want to get weak contact. Easy ground balls, pop ups, fly balls. A long as there are few if any hard hit balls it is a good day in the circle. Many joke about their 7 out innings where they had to provide 7 opportunities for their defense to get 3 outs. For the pitcher this is not a bad thing as they end up working with high pitch count innings. It is easy to keep it together for 15 pitches in an inning with a great defense, but something else to do it for 30 or 40 pitches with a less than skilled defense. Yes, it can be very frustrating for a college bound pitcher but they know it is only making them better.

Sparky Guy · Feb 25, 2018

As with any time in the circle they focus on providing an opportunity for their defense to make plays resulting in outs.

I tell my pitchers that all the time. I call them "Out" pitches. I tell my pitchers I know they are not going to K every hitter. If they can control the hitters getting them to swing at the pitches she wants them to, it keeps the hitters from hitting shots at the defenders. The results usually ends up being a good day.

And when a fielder makes a spectacular that saves their backside. I let my girls know she better be one of the first ones there to high five her. If not on the field on the way into the dugout.

obbay · Feb 26, 2018

.Gritting your teeth and enduring stuff like that while calling it a "character building experience" gets real old real quick.

I have harmed DD more times than not by enduring character building experiences and giving the adult coaches too much credit. So I have no patience left. He might be trying to "motivate" and I'm sure he probably is. He's just a simpleton who wants to look like a coach but doesn't really know how.

Just curious, what other sports does that coach coach?(Boys sports?) Does he also have them warm up with wrist flicks? Tell the batters to squish the bug, etc?
Sounds like a jackass. Hiding behind "Tough love" is giving him an excuse to be a complete and total douche. He clearly does not know how to coach.

MNDad · Feb 26, 2018

For starters, good luck to your DD and I hope the rest of her season goes well. I guess I’d have to disagree about the bullying. You said it was out in the circle with just her and catcher and not for all to hear so I see blunt criticism. Sounds like she was struggling and he told it like it is. It might not be what works best for your DD and his coaching style could easily be debated. Either way she needs to learn to adapt to it. HS is what it is, but with varsity comes older, more mature kids (in theory anyway) and the younger ones need to grow up quick if they’re going to fit in.

Believe me, I know how hard it is. Mines in college and I still get the tears. Just give her a shoulder to cry on. We can tell them how wonderful they are while the coach lets them have it about what they need to work on. If she has a problem with his approach, have her schedule a meeting with the coach to talk about it. If Mom and Dad have to get involved it just solidifies she’s not mature enough to play at the varsity level. Don’t be that parent that pulls them from the team and never lets them take responsibility for anything. DD had a teammate like that and she went down in flames when she got to college because nothing was ever her fault. Of course if there’s verbal or physical abuse we need to get involved. It doesn’t appear that’s the case here.

Legendsmom · Feb 26, 2018

obbay said:
I have harmed DD more times than not by enduring character building experiences and giving the adult coaches too much credit. So I have no patience left. He might be trying to "motivate" and I'm sure he probably is. He's just a simpleton who wants to look like a coach but doesn't really know how.

Just curious, what other sports does that coach coach?(Boys sports?) Does he also have them warm up with wrist flicks? Tell the batters to squish the bug, etc?
Sounds like a jackass. Hiding behind "Tough love" is giving him an excuse to be a complete and total douche. He clearly does not know how to coach.

He is the athletic director and is also an assistant coach for the football team. I was talking about this earlier and said that girls can’t be treated like boys because they react differently. Like the old saying girls have to feel good to win and boys have to win to feel good. Not that treating boys like that is ok, but they react differently. I’m afraid that her fear of messing up will affect her pitching for now on, I hope not. She is usually cool as a cucumber out there.

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Legendsmom · Feb 26, 2018

MNDad said:
For starters, good luck to your DD and I hope the rest of her season goes well. I guess I’d have to disagree about the bullying. You said it was out in the circle with just her and catcher and not for all to hear so I see blunt criticism. Sounds like she was struggling and he told it like it is. It might not be what works best for your DD and his coaching style could easily be debated. Either way she needs to learn to adapt to it. HS is what it is, but with varsity comes older, more mature kids (in theory anyway) and the younger ones need to grow up quick if they’re going to fit in.

Believe me, I know how hard it is. Mines in college and I still get the tears. Just give her a shoulder to cry on. We can tell them how wonderful they are while the coach lets them have it about what they need to work on. If she has a problem with his approach, have her schedule a meeting with the coach to talk about it. If Mom and Dad have to get involved it just solidifies she’s not mature enough to play at the varsity level. Don’t be that parent that pulls them from the team and never lets them take responsibility for anything. DD had a teammate like that and she went down in flames when she got to college because nothing was ever her fault. Of course if there’s verbal or physical abuse we need to get involved. It doesn’t appear that’s the case here.

I did talk to her and told her to control what she can and that is her pitching. I also told her to give 100% all the time. I disagree and do think he is a bully, because she has told me of other instances at practice where he picks on certain girls and I don’t think that is right especially since it’s only certain girls and not his favorites. If that is his coaching style then fine but don’t single out 1 kid when it’s a team effort. He also does not do this to the other pitcher and trust me she struggles also. It’s hard when the kid feels singled out and to do that in the middle of an inning is not the way to handle things. She was genuinely confused as to why he told her to grow up. She is very composed while pitching and is far from immature. She is the 1st to admit when she had a bad game and will take no excuses for it. I feel that since the defense was struggling as much as her that the whole team needed to be addressed. Like in an earlier post when someone said it’s her job to get outs, she is doing her job when she gets easy grounders and fly balls to the outfield. She is not going to strike everybody out.

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Frustration with high school ball

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