Forum for advice for MS and early HS players wanting to play college ball?

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May 15, 2016
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I know what DD, my wife and I went through during the recruiting process and how many D1 and D2 Athletic scholarships were rescinded when DD stuck to her guns and wanted to be a Nursing major.

My DD went to a D2 camp run by a college with a impressive post-season record, and an even more impressive nursing program. I was talking to one of the trainers during the camp and he told me the HC told one player to choose between nursing and softball, the HC wouldn't let her do both. The student remained true to being a student.

Hope your DD found a good program.
 
May 27, 2013
2,353
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As I'm sure you know, all it takes to be considered a full-time student is 12 semester hours. Also, as I'm sure you know, in order for players to remain eligible to play collegiate SB, it only takes them passing 9 hours. For those players that have very demanding majors such as Pre-Med, Engineering, Nursing, etc. etc., few graduate from the Major D1 level in 4 years since many players only take the 12 hour minimum requirement class hours due to sports taking up so much of their time and the academic requirement to graduate in 4 years is, on average, 60 hours including electives.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it can't or won't be done; just that a majority fail to do so and it's not just D1 Student-athletes. All SA's across the board struggle with demanding majors. That's why so many of them quit their Freshman year if they go that route and try and play a sport also.

Yep. As a nursing major, I was told that I might be able to play softball my freshman year and that would be it due to the time needed for all day clinicals starting in my second year. This was at a DIII program I was recruited to play for. I had 17 credits first semester, 16 second semester. The only time I had 12 credits was my last semester senior year. Coach asked me to reconsider my major. I chose to not play softball instead, especially since I paid for my education.

ETA: Nursing is also one of those majors where it is science heavy with labs up-front; and all courses have to follow a very specific plan of study due to course offerings and sequencing. Any SA who can somehow figure out how to play ball, major in nursing, and graduate in four years deserves a ton of respect and admiration.
 
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Oct 3, 2011
3,478
113
Right Here For Now
Hope your DD found a good program.

At the time, DD was set to go to a very good D3 which worked hand in hand with their nursing program. That is, until she found out about being a Music Therapist as a career. Thus the last minute college change. Her college is nationally recognized for it's Music programs.
 
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obbay

Banned
Aug 21, 2008
2,199
0
Boston, MA
Most people's jobs involve problem solving and thinking, two skills "higher level" math instills. What does she plan on majoring in?

DD is going into Education (which seems to be a natural choice for her)

I agree and while it is a good thing, I don't think Calculus is the only way to get there. plus you know we get people who are "book smart" but never "get" how to work with others, ergo I've always encouraged broadening her horizons. Also, one of the schools she has applied to is predominantly a business school and when we went for an open house, they told us that regardless of your major, the school has "Business Requirements" for all students because no matter what you think today, after you graduate you may find yourself at a job where you could really use some business skills. they want to give all their students the tools to succeed whether they specifically major in business or not.

I work with engineers all the time and I asked a few of them if they ever found a use for calculus after college and they could not think of anything. One did say "maybe at one time structural engineering, but all their calcs are done by computer now anyway".
 
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
riseball, as you know, I have great respect for you. However, there's a reason that most of the players you see in the P5 colleges are either communications or business management majors. Out of the top 8 teams in the WCWS last year, you had 2 Engineering majors and one Pre-med major student-athletes. Most, but not all, of the other players were one of several previous mentioned majors by both Sluggers and myself. Yes, most of the colleges, no matter the level of play, are vested heavily in their players academic success. But realistically, is this not because they are "giving them," a "$270,000" education if offered a 4 year full ride and want them to remain eligible to play?

Maybe I'm cynical. I probably am. That said, I know what DD, my wife and I went through during the recruiting process and how many D1 and D2 Athletic scholarships were rescinded when DD stuck to her guns and wanted to be a Nursing major. I also know that the pitcher from Tennessee I was talking about earlier, who happened to be a National Honor Society graduate and her class Valedictorian in HS could not graduate in 4 years from there; not due to being a screw up or being lackadaisical in her studies, but she wanted to graduate with a degree in a very demanding field.

As I'm sure you know, all it takes to be considered a full-time student is 12 semester hours. Also, as I'm sure you know, in order for players to remain eligible to play collegiate SB, it only takes them passing 9 hours. For those players that have very demanding majors such as Pre-Med, Engineering, Nursing, etc. etc., few graduate from the Major D1 level in 4 years since many players only take the 12 hour minimum requirement class hours due to sports taking up so much of their time and the academic requirement to graduate in 4 years is, on average, 120+ hours including electives.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it can't or won't be done; just that a majority fail to do so and it's not just D1 Student-athletes. All SA's across the board struggle with demanding majors. That's why so many of them quit their Freshman year if they go that route and try and play a sport also.

There seems to be a myth that an offer of an athletic scholarship guarantees the pursuit of the major of your choice. That is not how it works. The provision of an athletic scholarship is contingent on you, not the school making it work with your intended major. The requirements of each major are beyond the control of the coach and the athletic department. The lack of cooperation from the school of engineering or nursing does not mean that the coach and athletic department are not invested in your academic success. Far from it. At SC they went to great lengths to build alliances with the academic side of the house. They would even help you schedule your classes to avoid instructors who were openly hostile toward athletes. It is no secret that there are plenty of academic elitists with a demonstrated disdain for athletes. If it is not possible for you to pursue a certain major then it is very simple: find another school, negotiate a 5th year, pick another major, or do not play the sport. I have had a few players graduate with nursing degrees. Yes, it was not easy but it is possible. You just need to do your homework.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
I work with engineers all the time and I asked a few of them if they ever found a use for calculus after college and they could not think of anything. One did say "maybe at one time structural engineering, but all their calcs are done by computer now anyway".

This is probably true for a lot of engineers, I won't disagree with that. I won't get into the details regarding these computer calculations but the underlying math used is often based upon a lot of assumptions and the most important thing is to understand whether the problem you are solving obeys these assumptions. A lot of companies solve the same types of problems over and over again which means oftentimes they can ignore this 99 out of 100 times. Unfortunately that 1 in a 100 case could lead to a collapsed bridge, wing failure, etc....

Statistics is important as well, however the way it is often taught in HS and college (for non-math majors) is just throwing a bunch of formulas at the students without explaining the underlying theory that goes into these formulas e.g. a bottom up approach (without much "up") which always bothered me as a student.

The most important skills you get out of college IMO are a) how you as an individual best learn (locking yourself in your room to study, study in groups, ask lots of questions, etc) and b) to persevere when a what seems to be insurmountable challenge is presented to you (cognitive dissonance). Challenging yourself with difficult courses is the best way (again imo) for these skills to be gained. At the end of the day your GPA may suffer a bit but it will benefit you down the road.
 
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Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
Far from it. At SC they went to great lengths to build alliances with the academic side of the house. They would even help you schedule your classes to avoid instructors who were openly hostile toward athletes. It is no secret that there are plenty of academic elitists with a demonstrated disdain for athletes. If it is not possible for you to pursue a certain major then it is very simple: find another school, negotiate a 5th year, pick another major, or do not play the sport. I have had a few players graduate with nursing degrees. Yes, it was not easy but it is possible. You just need to do your homework.

There are certainly professors who dislike athletes..mainly because they often were the last kids to be picked for kickball in elementary school :p . These professors will give kids a hard time for missing classes due to sports. Me personally I don't care if a kid misses every class as long as they know the material. I am not a babysitter. My freshmen year I attended about 5 calculus courses, including the exams. The professor was garbage and I had already taken calc in HS. I had the book and already knew the material so I didn't bother going.

The main issue with engineering,biology,physics,nursing,etc is that lab courses are difficult to re-schedule. The labs have to be set up before hand and are usually supervised by graduate students. Graduate students are usually restricted in terms of how many hours they can work for a given class. So as they also have often have to grade HW, lab reports, etc., having them setup and monitor a lab for 1 or 2 students is often not feasible. While this may seem silly, it is a reality and if a department is caught overworking their grad assistants they can get in big trouble, in particular if the students are on a green card. Also oftentimes the lab spaces are shared amongst different classes.
 
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May 15, 2016
926
18
At the time, DD was set to go to a very good D3 which worked hand in hand with their nursing program. That is, until she found out about being a Music Therapist as a career. Thus the last minute college change. Her college is nationally recognized for it's Music programs.

Great to hear. Good luck to her.
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,312
113
Florida
ETA: Nursing is also one of those majors where it is science heavy with labs up-front; and all courses have to follow a very specific plan of study due to course offerings and sequencing. Any SA who can somehow figure out how to play ball, major in nursing, and graduate in four years deserves a ton of respect and admiration.

Still deserves respect and admiration to complete, but if you want nursing as your major, you could do your research and look at attend one of several schools that have athletics/academics already set up to work with a nursing major... like Caldwell as mentioned before.
 
Feb 19, 2009
196
0
My point:

The college coach wants your DD to be focused completely on softball. S/he doesn't want your DD distracted by things like grades, majors and "life after softball".

In your first reply to the OP you said you didn't think he got it but it seems clear at this point that your the one who doesn't get it.

Whether you realize this or not or are willing to publicly admit it your perspective on this subject has been exposed as narrow, limited and dated. Sure, you can still find the college softball experience you've posted about here (Mikey Dean at AU) and you may not get the major you want if it seriously conflicts with softball but poster after poster with recent experience has pointed out that student academic performance is what differentiates top players from each other many schools invest heavily in both the athletic and academic success of their softball recruits.

Early on this thread had the makings of a standard DFP formula thread. To wit:

OP- besides softball skills what academic or other skills will help kids with college? (good under discussed topic btw)

YOU- You don't get it, your kid's gotta be the best baller! Coach has to win to pay mortgage! (really? They don't sleep on the office couch?)

In a typical thread this this is nothing short of an invitation for multiple posters who really want everyone to know their dd is playing big-time D1 ball to chime in agreeing with you and posting about their dd's softball awesomeness. To cut the poster(s) on this thread some slack, at least he/they just mentioned their kids are playing D1 or whatever and didn't ramble on about what five tool stud(s) she/they are. This gets real tedious very fast because it's the kind of thing that get talked about, oh lets see... on every other thread on this site.

Fortunately this thread broke that mold and posters have share some insight that doesn't seem to get talked about as routinely as general softball topics. It's nothing personal Sluggers, if I met you in a bar I'd be happy to have a cold one with you but if you talked in real life about the same stuff you always seem to post about here and direct conversations toward I'd finish my beer and say, "hey look at the time I better run."
 

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