Lineup/cheating?

Regarding the above - in rec, we bat all of our players who show up and all of them are on defense at some point. We have 13 players and we field 10 at a time since we get 4 in the OF. So 3 usually sit. The always re-enter in different innings. With GC I usually have to indicate that I don't need to change the batting order since all 13 are still batting.

I'm guessing this is just a rec league rule? How does it change in TB - DD's association is making plans to hopefully put together a TB team for the spring so I want to make sure I know all differences in scoring. We've never had an issue putting players in on defense - batting always stays the same.

grcsftbll said:

I keep score on our team and if I notice an out of order batter I never say anything til they get on base. That's how you get the out.

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Same. I keep score, and you have to wait until the batter is on base to bring it up (but before the first pitch is thrown to the new batter!). Then if you batted out of order, the girl on base is out.

But is sounds like an honest mistake here, considering that is how it has been done throughout the season. I will also say this is one of my biggest pet peeves though. List them as subs or be sure to take them off the line up. It sounds like you have an issue with families not being committed, which really stinks. They should let coach know before they game if they will or won't be there.

gamommax3 said:

Same. I keep score, and you have to wait until the batter is on base to bring it up (but before the first pitch is thrown to the new batter!). Then if you batted out of order, the girl on base is out.

But is sounds like an honest mistake here, considering that is how it has been done throughout the season. I will also say this is one of my biggest pet peeves though. List them as subs or be sure to take them off the line up. It sounds like you have an issue with families not being committed, which really stinks. They should let coach know before they game if they will or won't be there.

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When batting out of order is appealed, it is not the player that batted out of order (player on base in your description) that is out, it is the player who should have batted that is called out, the improper batters time at bat is negated and they are removed from base and the next batter is the player who follows the batter who should have batted.

nixxy311 said:

Regarding the above - in rec, we bat all of our players who show up and all of them are on defense at some point. We have 13 players and we field 10 at a time since we get 4 in the OF. So 3 usually sit. The always re-enter in different innings. With GC I usually have to indicate that I don't need to change the batting order since all 13 are still batting.

I'm guessing this is just a rec league rule? How does it change in TB - DD's association is making plans to hopefully put together a TB team for the spring so I want to make sure I know all differences in scoring. We've never had an issue putting players in on defense - batting always stays the same.

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Travel ball is going to depend on the rule set and depending on which rule set if it is pool play or elimination play. Just using USA softball as an example, in pool play you can bat the roster, but in elimination play you can only bat 9. Using the dp/flex you can have 10 in the lineup, but only 9 of those bat, the flex is a defensive only position. You are required to report substitutions any time a player enters the game regardless of if it is on defense or offense. Again, using USA as the rule set, if you do not report a sub on defense and they make a play the opposing coach can appeal the unreported sub and they get the option of the result of the play or return the batter to bat with the original count, basically a do over.

In rec we do switch defensive positions around a lot but in MS and All-Stars they tend to stay where they are so hopefully that won't be as much of an issue..
Hard going from one mindset to another though..
Would you only need to report if they weren't on the field initially? DD used to switch SS/C with another girl - if they swapped from one inning to another would that need to be reported or because they were both already out there before, does it matter?

When you are batting the entire lineup it is generally treated as a free substitution situation (move players in and out of defense at will) but you would ultimately have to look at your leagues rules to know for sure. All the players are in the game, so there are no subs to report.

As I stated, in USA softball elimination play you only bat 9, can have 10 in the lineup and then any changes made to that original 9 or 10 would involve a substitution and would have to be reported to the umpire.

This is one of the problems with rec leagues messing around with the normal rules. Neither the players or the coaches have any idea of how to manage their lineups or subs when the do try to play actual travel ball.

The bottom line is that if you make any changes that affects your lineup you need to tell the other team. They might not care. If you aren't sure of the affect ask the umpire.

canyonjoe said:

The bottom line is that if you make any changes that affects your lineup you need to tell the other team. They might not care. If you aren't sure of the affect ask the umpire.

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It is the umpires that needs to be notified of the change, it is then their responsibility to notify the other team. As I stated earlier, the only lineup card that matters is the one in the umpires possession.

Comp said:

When batting out of order is appealed, it is not the player that batted out of order (player on base in your description) that is out, it is the player who should have batted that is called out, the improper batters time at bat is negated and they are removed from base and the next batter is the player who follows the batter who should have batted.

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I explained it poorly. Thank you for the clarification!

Comp said:

It is the umpires that needs to be notified of the change, it is then their responsibility to notify the other team. As I stated earlier, the only lineup card that matters is the one in the umpires possession.

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Thanks, I meant to say both, but for some reason left it off. I deserve a posting out of order penalty.