Respect for the game

YOCOACH · Sep 19, 2017

Okay. Once again, you never know who knows somebody and/or watching. DD, after being offered spots from major D1's down to D3's decided to go to a D2 where nobody knew her and there was no offer. She played in some big showcases in the past, PGF Nationals, USA Nationals, Individual showcases, etc, etc. However, the HC she went to play for never even knew she existed until she made an unofficial visit and introduced herself. This past year, he was never able to come out and see her play even though our team played mostly local, smaller showcases which had few to no college coaches in attendance and he was never over an hour and a half drive away. That said, he made a spot for her on the team after talking to many of the umpires that did our games and it looks like she will be starting behind the plate over two Junior Catchers that are getting an Athletic Sholarship.

So yes, you never know who's watching whether there are college coaches there or not and that's the way your team should play and the coaches should play the players. Unfortunately, you have those guys or gals that have to win at all costs and it is a detriment to the game and players in general as far as showcases go as is time limits on a game that isn't meant for such a thing. What it comes down to is this, In general, you can't control the circumstances you and your team are put in (except by not playing the same ones the following years with the ones you aren't happy with) but you can certainly control how you and your team react to them. You can either deal with it and win, or possibly lose with class, or you can whine about it. The choice is yours.

dbronstein · Sep 19, 2017

sbdad03 said:
I get tired of hearing all this whining about timed games and managing the clock. When there are rules put into place, such as a time limit, coaches will do whatever they have to do for the betterment of their team. That might mean different things to different coaches. Some coaches play at the highest level and it is about winning at all costs (if they don't win, they could lose their affiliation with the org they play for). Other coaches might have the chance to beat the team they have never beaten before and they will incorporate stall tactics and in doing so, gives the team so much confidence that they finish out the season on an unbelievable winning streak. Another coach may choose to teach his players his philosophy about hustle on/hustle off and let the chips fall where they may.

I agree. I generally don't like coaches stalling, but I have stalled on occasion for similar reasons. I was coaching a team that wasn't very good and were finally in a position to win a game. I did feel a beat "sleazy", for lack of a better word, but I wanted my players to get the feeling of winning after working so hard and constantly coming up short (or getting blown out).

I understand the thinking of not worry about the clock and just playing softball and that's my preference with a team that is a bit better. And I'm sure someone will say I just need to coach better and improve the team, but sometimes there is only so much you can do in a league that has a large disparity in the level of teams.

Greenmonsters · Sep 19, 2017

Work on trying to control that which is within your ability to control and don't waste your time with the other stuff.

Mocoso · Sep 20, 2017

All the arguments about letting coaches coach makes me laugh - how is someone thinking stalling time is a typical move done by insecure coaches and weak teams affect how the other coach runs their team? I didn't know the opinion of another coach is supposed to affect how I run my team. And I get time tactics in a competitive tournament - may still think it's bushleage when it's done against me and gripe about it but i get it - don't like it but get it - in a showcase though? bushleague with a capital B

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FP26 · Sep 20, 2017

It is true that you really don't know who is watching or when. We played in a showcase in mid-July. We had seen several college coaches at each of our games, including two that DD had invited. We also posted profile pages on the outside of the fence near the dugout. A few days after the tournament was over, DD received an unsolicited email from a college that we didn't even know was there. No one from our team saw this particular coach there. After speaking with the team mom that was monitoring the profile pages, she did state that she saw a lady look very briefly at a few profiles and take pictures of two with her phone, but walked away before she could ask her anything. This lady was not dressed in the typical college attire, so she didn't even realize she was a coach. She thought she was just a spectator from the other team.

DD's pitching coach is an ex college coach and still knows several coaches at various levels. Once in a while a coach will reach out to him and ask him to scout a pitcher that may be playing at a tournament in his area. He will show up in regular street clothes (He almost always wears a Yankees shirt whenever I see him). He is there scouting players but looks just like any other spectator.

nobrainhamster · Sep 26, 2017

Getting the win.

I don't consider working the clock disrespecting the game, but I understand the point being made.

Somebody mentioned the possibility of beating a team they've never beaten before, and it reminded me of one of my favorite moments in my time coaching.
We were facing out friendliest rival and had never beaten them before (0-5). The game was close and we had managed to be in the lead late, and only needed 2 outs, or the umpire alarm to finally get the win.
The other team had a friendly but fairly loud mouthed Dad that we hadn't gotten to know yet as well as we would later.
I went out for a visit with the pitcher, and called the infield over, as well. There was a runner in 2nd and we only had a 1 run lead.
As I got halfway there we all heard the Dad say, "he's just trying to run out the clock so they can beat us. I smiled and kept walking as the other teams' head coach said to him, "you are dead right, and I wish it was me out there." The Dad asked what he meant and the coach answered, "I would be doing the exact same thing."
I loved it. Since it was the last game if the day, and we were such friendly rivals we talked the umpires into sticking around after the alarm officially ended the game.
Our pitcher struck out the next batter, and coaxed a ground ball from the next to get the 3rd out. So, we got to insure the win, then show the girls they could do it themselves if needed.
Not a one of them had any issue with us using the rules to make sure we held in to the lead.
Now, I didn't drag it out an unusually extended period of time. I would never do that, but there is no disrespect in using parts if the process to run clock.

canyonjoe · Sep 26, 2017

I personally think working the clock within the game is OK. If there is a minute left, take a pitch or 2. Don't try and steal as you might end an inning,etc. I draw the line at meaningless conferences and tying their shoes, or putting a sub in for no reason. With that said, coaches that do it don't bother me as long as they don't pretend they aren't doing it. When they ac like they invented some amazing strategy. Now we always play in finish innings game (ironically because of an umpire situation we had our first drop dead ever this weekend) so I feel we had our fair chance. We had one last year where we lost 5-0 to a team and they stalled the last couple of minutes away. A couple of our parents were yammering on about how they won because of that. I asked with a serious face what made them think we would have scored 5 runs in one inning when we had none the previous 5 and they stopped. We did have a game once where it was 2-1 and they had a couple of minutes left and they had a kid foul off like 8 or 10 pitches in a row with 2 outs before lining a single and time ran out. That's the way to do it.

YOCOACH · Sep 26, 2017

nobrainhamster said:
I don't consider working the clock disrespecting the game, but I understand the point being made.

Somebody mentioned the possibility of beating a team they've never beaten before, and it reminded me of one of my favorite moments in my time coaching.
We were facing out friendliest rival and had never beaten them before (0-5). The game was close and we had managed to be in the lead late, and only needed 2 outs, or the umpire alarm to finally get the win.
The other team had a friendly but fairly loud mouthed Dad that we hadn't gotten to know yet as well as we would later.
I went out for a visit with the pitcher, and called the infield over, as well. There was a runner in 2nd and we only had a 1 run lead.
As I got halfway there we all heard the Dad say, "he's just trying to run out the clock so they can beat us. I smiled and kept walking as the other teams' head coach said to him, "you are dead right, and I wish it was me out there." The Dad asked what he meant and the coach answered, "I would be doing the exact same thing."
I loved it. Since it was the last game if the day, and we were such friendly rivals we talked the umpires into sticking around after the alarm officially ended the game.
Our pitcher struck out the next batter, and coaxed a ground ball from the next to get the 3rd out. So, we got to insure the win, then show the girls they could do it themselves if needed.
Not a one of them had any issue with us using the rules to make sure we held in to the lead.
Now, I didn't drag it out an unusually extended period of time. I would never do that, but there is no disrespect in using parts if the process to run clock.

Here's the main issue with what we are talking about in general. A softball game is meant to be completed in 7 innings...not timed. I understand that TB tournaments are trying to get the most games "completed" but the fact remains that they aren't meant to be timed. Could you imagine if the MLB league timed games at one hour thirty and revert back?! There would be national outrage! Could you imagine what the fallout would be?!

Now, why is it okay with SB? Because it's a huge money grab by the organizations that hold the tournaments. They want to get the maximum number of teams and games in their tournaments as possible; pure and simple. You can't blame them. It's a fundraiser for them and the more college coaches they have attend for showcases, the more money they make. Again, you can't blame them. They were successful in the product they've sold.

That said, most people don't realize how little money most tournaments make for their organizations as a general rule. Last year, our organization had approximately 118 teams from 10U through 18U. It wasn't a large tournament for our area but not small either. After gate fees (3$ per person except coaches and players), umpire fees, field usage fees, field dry fees due to rain during the tournament, etc. etc., we made $1800 for the tournament. It's not all roses and rainbows as many assume that much more money is made than actually is. Past years, we've actually lost money due to rain and the cost of field dry in order to get the fields ready to play. So for everyone that wants to bitch about entrance fees and the additional cost for a tournament, understand that it all evens out in the end. Sometimes they make money and sometimes they don't. Either way, you're paying for the privelege to see your DD play a game that she loves and to see the sheer joy she has while being on the "dirt." Always remember, this phase in her life will be short-lived. My DD is now playing at the collegiate level and I would give almost, and I mean ALMOST ANYTHING to go back to when she was 5 years old and building sandcastles on the edge of the IF dirt and start over again and I would bet that as much satisfaction as we have and the many other parents have that their DD has now achieved their dreams of playing in college, they would give almost anything to go back and start over again also.

ETA: Yeah Greenmonsters, I know, I know...It's time to let go a little

Maybe a year or two down the road.... You've had a few more years at this than we have

Greenmonsters · Sep 26, 2017

YOCOACH said:
Here's the main issue with what we are talking about in general. A softball game is meant to be completed in 7 innings...not timed. I understand that TB tournaments are trying to get the most games "completed" but the fact remains that they aren't meant to be timed. Could you imagine if the MLB league timed games at one hour thirty and revert back?! There would be national outrage! Could you imagine what the fallout would be?!

Now, why is it okay with SB? Because it's a huge money grab by the organizations that hold the tournaments. They want to get the maximum number of teams and games in their tournaments as possible; pure and simple. You can't blame them. It's a fundraiser for them and the more college coaches they have attend for showcases, the more money they make. Again, you can't blame them. They were successful in the product they've sold.

That said, most people don't realize how little money most tournaments make for their organizations as a general rule. Last year, our organization had approximately 118 teams from 10U through 18U. It wasn't a large tournament for our area but not small either. After gate fees (3$ per person except coaches and players), umpire fees, field usage fees, field dry fees due to rain during the tournament, etc. etc., we made $1800 for the tournament. It's not all rose colored glasses as many assume that much more money is made than actually is. Past years, we've actually lost money due to rain and the cost of field dry in order to get the fields ready to play. So for everyone that wants to bitch about entrance fees and the additional cost for a tournament, understand that it all evens out in the end. Sometimes they make money and sometimes they don't. Either way, you're paying for the privelege to see your DD play a game that she loves and to see the sheer joy she has while being on the "dirt." Always remember, this phase in her life will be short-lived. My DD is now playing at the collegiate level and I would give almost, and I mean ALMOST ANYTHING to go back to when she was 5 years old and building sandcastles on the edge of the IF dirt and start over again and I would bet that as much satisfaction as we have and the many other parents have that their DD has now achieved their dreams of playing in college, they would give almost anything to go back and start over again also.

ETA: Yeah Greenmonsters, I know, I know...It's time to let go a little Maybe a year or two down the road.... You've had a few more years at this than we have

I miss DD's playing days more than I thought I would, which is one of the reasons I am still hanging around DFP.

Respect for the game

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