I have seen some changes though. A few years ago it seemed Bama would throw a big hitter into a corner OF spot to have their bat in the lineup even if it was a defensive liability. They are not doing this anymore and play with three true outfielders.
Outfielders
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I have seen some changes though. A few years ago it seemed Bama would throw a big hitter into a corner OF spot to have their bat in the lineup even if it was a defensive liability. They are not doing this anymore and play with three true outfielders.
I disagree - the only reason why it may be perceived that it’s easier to teach a HS kid to play OF instead of IF is that it’s easier to hide their flaws in the OF position - and a lot of teams pay dearly for being ok with crappy outfielders cus they have a “bat”
SS misses a ground ball it’s due to them not having right technique
OF misses the ball and it’s always someone else’s fault... the wind, the sun, pitcher missed spot.. the gopher hole...
SS gets the ball she’s expected to make the throw
OF gets ball and it’s a “good job keeping it in front just throw it to your cutoff”
If you held the OF to the same expectations and standards as the IF you would realize those positions take years to master as well..
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SS misses a ground ball it’s due to them not having right technique
OF misses the ball and it’s always someone else’s fault... the wind, the sun, pitcher missed spot.. the gopher hole...
SS gets the ball she’s expected to make the throw
OF gets ball and it’s a “good job keeping it in front just throw it to your cutoff”
If you held the OF to the same expectations and standards as the IF you would realize those positions take years to master as well..
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- Jun 8, 2016
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I didn't say it was easy..I said it was easier. Mookie Betts has won 2 gloves in RF but played SS and 2B all the way up till AAA. Wake me the next time a converted outfielder wins a gold glove at SS/2B. I realize that most in this thread are parents of OF and I am not disparaging OF, they are just as important as IF from 12U up, but the fact of the matter is there are more skills to be learned that take time to develop in the IF, in particular MI, then there are in the OF.
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It's more like the best players are made to be infielders at a young age, thus college coaches recruit those infielders and you have too many infielders and have to convert some. Outfielders basically never get converted because there's no need, you already have 5 shortstops on the team.
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and I guess everyone is arguing that this is based on the false premise that it is harder to play SS both skillwise and
,to a certain extent, athletically? I don't agree but that is fine
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For what it is worth there is actually a study about the ability to track fly balls (done by Japanese scientists) that says biologically there is nothing in our DNA that that makes this skill useful for survival (unless $430M is useful). It is totally learned and take years to build up an frame of reference and really understand what to do and how to tracking a ball. I am sure all who have suffered know at the youth level (particularly in softball and recreation leagues) most if not all the plays are made in the infield and few coaches actually teach much (if any) real outfield skills. So best (most athletic kids play P, C and infield like SS) and the OF gets saved for later. By the time HS rolls around too many kids have poor OF skills and while some coaches at the HS level will understand the value of good OF because they are the last line of defense, there are not many of those and probably even fewer who can instruct it. Unless a team has a full time OF instructor it is going to go poorly and lets be honest we have all see where hitting a half dozen high fly balls right at them is usually what constitutes outfield practice.
I just got back from watching my son's college team and one game the coach put a kid in LF who should clearly only pitch. He has a cannon for an arm (85 MPH on the hill) and is quick but totally misplayed a easy single on the ground (no one on) which I am sure a well taught 12U would know what to do. I was at a coaching clinic for SB and a D1 assistant coach (former D1 outfielder) was doing stuff admittedly wrong or contrary to how MLB player learn and track balls and she is still trying to work stuff out. Oh and for what is worth Mookie played OF in AA and AAA for a season and a half with full time instructor who gets 6 figures to teach OF to the minor league players and even then he is a freak. While there is much one can learn from seeing how MLB coaches teach the players, the mistake is to assume you ever run across a player like that. Mookie is a 1%'er among MLB players...I have that on good authority.
I just got back from watching my son's college team and one game the coach put a kid in LF who should clearly only pitch. He has a cannon for an arm (85 MPH on the hill) and is quick but totally misplayed a easy single on the ground (no one on) which I am sure a well taught 12U would know what to do. I was at a coaching clinic for SB and a D1 assistant coach (former D1 outfielder) was doing stuff admittedly wrong or contrary to how MLB player learn and track balls and she is still trying to work stuff out. Oh and for what is worth Mookie played OF in AA and AAA for a season and a half with full time instructor who gets 6 figures to teach OF to the minor league players and even then he is a freak. While there is much one can learn from seeing how MLB coaches teach the players, the mistake is to assume you ever run across a player like that. Mookie is a 1%'er among MLB players...I have that on good authority.
- Jun 8, 2016
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Nothing you said goes against what I am saying, other than me missing Mookie's 1/2 year in AA ball playing OF
. OF has to be taught correctly and yes a lot of times it isn't and sure in that case you will have a OF full of kids who don't know how to track a ball, take the correct route to cutting off balls in the gap or how to properly throw when they are fielding the ball on the run. The comparisons I am making are for good IF vs good OF. Sure if you don't want your MI to get to the right of the ball on balls hit straight at her, deflecting the ball for plays where she uses two hands vs catching it in the web and using a backhand vs getting in front of everything when the backhand play would make making an on-balance strong throw easier (not to mention proper footwork to get good hops, how to turn a DP correctly, how to throw from different arm slots depending on what the play calls for etc) then sure teaching how to play IF is just as easy as learning to play OF. I see almost as much garbage IF (in particular MI) play at the higher levels of softball as I do OF play...
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Nothing you said goes against what I am saying, other than me missing Mookie's 1/2 year in AA ball playing OF
I was not against anything you said, we are on the same page. I think we both view the whole throw someone in the OF as rather a simplistic view and not good coaching.
My couple points to add were besides being something that must be learned it isn’t even a skill we need to possess in terms of biology making all that more difficult to learn. Second is even for a freakish talent like Betts he had expert instruction (plus he worked along Bradley who is a wizard himself) it takes effort and time, your average HS kid gets neither in most cases.
CoC
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- Jun 8, 2016
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One other thing that may be in play here is how many kids, in particular girls, nowadays practice fly balls outside of organized practice regardless of what their primary position is? When I was a kid, even though I was a SS through HS (and then played 2B in college), my Dad used to hit me fly balls all the time along with me just going out with my friends and taking fly balls at the park. My DD is a MI but I hit her fly balls whenever we go out to the field. She probably gets more fly balls in a week doing that then her OF teammates do in their organized practices....Of course there are obviously other things to learn other than tracking fly balls but if you can do that properly, even if your primary position isn't OF at first, it is an advantage if you are switched at some point.
Edit: Another thing. When I was a kid, team BP was taken on the field and you could get a decent amount of fly balls just heading to the OF during BP. With almost every team having an indoor facility, how many teams take BP on the field now??
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- Jul 14, 2018
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This is a big part of the equation. For most girls, the first four or five years of softball involve little to no outfield play. They'll get the occasional roller through the infield, but the outfield grass is what separates the casual players from the serious ones.
DD is a second-year 12, and there are still many parents who complain when their girls are 'stuck' in the outfield. But balls are finding their way out there more consistently, and I've started to work on fielding fly balls in the times that I take DD out for some extra practice.
Maybe this is a question for a new thread, but other than just hitting balls and getting practice tracking them in the air, does anyone have some good drills for tracking the ball?
