Another Scoring Question

Ryan2 said:

Losing the ball in the sun is a mistake by the fielder. Not a good job by the hitter. IMO right???

Click to expand...

CoogansBluff said:

I wouldn't assume that losing the ball in the sun is a mistake by the fielder. It happens. What was the mistake? Failing to use the glove to shield? Failing to wear sun glasses? If that's the reason, then if falls under the category of a mental mistake, and mental mistakes are not fielding errors.

As far as whether the hitter did a good job, it's not the job of the scorer to judge that. The question is whether the fielder should have caught the ball at the moment it needed to be caught. At that moment in this case, the fielder couldn't see the ball, so it can't be fairly said that he/she should have caught it at that moment. Hard to catch what you can't see.

Also, someone said that perhaps scoring rules should be re-evaluated. Problem is, you've got a history of doing it one way, and to change that would then render MLB and NCAA records somewhat meaningless.

Click to expand...

canyonjoe said:

I understand your point, but have a hard time accepting the idea that we have always done it wrong so let's continue doing. Are all stats meaningless prior to moving the rubber back to 43 feet? What about HR's and BA with the composite bats? In baseball we still know Babe Ruth hit 714 HR's don't discount Hank Aaron because he hit a lot of his after the lowered the mound. A perfect example to me is that if you fly out in a game you are losing 10-0 and there happens to be a runner on 3rd you get a sac fly and no time at bat while the hitter who goes inside out and a pitch and advances the runner to 3rd on a grounder to 2nd on a 1-1 game in the 7th just gets an out. If you are a pitcher and look at a stat like ERA so much depends on your fielders. 2 identical pitchers on a good team and one on a terrible team can be off by several runs a game.

Click to expand...

CoogansBluff said:

Good points. But scoring changes are a little different than rules changes. Conditions changed between Ruth and Aaron, but the definition of a home run has not changed. (Well, actually maybe it did. Wasn't there a time when a walk-off HR counted as a HR if the HR was the winning run?)

I'd be open to tweaks in scoring rules, but I was mainly just pointing out the drawbacks to it. I'd have to hear the suggestions.

Click to expand...

canyonjoe said:

I agree, I wasn't trying to get into an argument. Sorry if it came off that way.

Click to expand...

Ryan2 said:

I would score it as a hit. If you score as a fielders choice the batter is not credited with a hit. The OP makes its sound like a hit and not an error. My interpretation of a fielders choice is if the fielder wanted to go to 1st to get an out but attempts on a different runner it is a fielders choice. But if they could not have got the batter and there wasn't an error it must be scored a hit.
Don't penalize the batter.

A batter who reaches first base safely as the result of a fielder's choice is not credited with a hit or a time on base; however, his turn at the plate is recorded as an at bat and plate appearance.

Click to expand...

CoogansBluff said:

Good points. But scoring changes are a little different than rules changes. Conditions changed between Ruth and Aaron, but the definition of a home run has not changed. (Well, actually maybe it did. Wasn't there a time when a walk-off HR counted as a HR if the HR was the winning run?)

In Ruth's day, they didn't give him credit for a HR if it were a walk-off and the winning run scored ahead of him on the HR. But, he was also credited with a HR if the ball bounced over the fence during the early part of his career.

Click to expand...