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Thread: Scoring Question

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    I can talk softball all day Mad4Ball's Avatar
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    Default Scoring Question

    Ball is a line drive up the middle. Pitcher gets some of it with her glove slowing it down. SS comes running in hard to make the play at first but rushes the throw and pulls 1st of her base and the runner is safe. If SS took her time with the throw she had enough time to get the runner at first but if she had not gotten there so quickly the runner might have been safe regardless.

    Is this an error on the SS?

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    Allergic to BS Strike2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad4Ball View Post
    Ball is a line drive up the middle. Pitcher gets some of it with her glove slowing it down. SS comes running in hard to make the play at first but rushes the throw and pulls 1st of her base and the runner is safe. If SS took her time with the throw she had enough time to get the runner at first but if she had not gotten there so quickly the runner might have been safe regardless.

    Is this an error on the SS?
    An error is a failure to make a routine play, not a failure to make an exceptional one. A deflected line drive isn't "routine", and by your own description, the SS did well to have any play on it at all. IMO, it should go as an IF hit.

    When there is any doubt, ALWAYS give the batter credit for a well struck ball.

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    Checking out the clubhouse Chaz McNulty's Avatar
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    It all depends on if your daughter was the hitter or the pitcher.

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    I eat, sleep and breathe softball chinamigarden's Avatar
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    Sounds like an error to me.

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    I eat, sleep and breathe softball CoogansBluff's Avatar
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    The fact that this fielder did well to field the ball doesn't give her a free pass on the throw, however.

    So was the throw itself routine? Was it a case where the effort to field the ball made it hard to judge how much time she had,ie,the play itself effectively rushed the throw? Or was it a play where you're thinking, 'Awesome catch, kid, but unfortunately you still need to make that throw.''

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    Allergic to BS Strike2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
    The fact that this fielder did well to field the ball doesn't give her a free pass on the throw, however.

    So was the throw itself routine? Was it a case where the effort to field the ball made it hard to judge how much time she had,ie,the play itself effectively rushed the throw? Or was it a play where you're thinking, 'Awesome catch, kid, but unfortunately you still need to make that throw.''
    A "routine play" is just that, and it might have more than one component. One part of it being (arguably) routine doesn't mean that a failure to get an out is an "error". The kid may have judged that she needed to get the throw off quicker than what was really necessary, which might be a mental mistake, but not an "error" as the rules define it. If not for pitcher's deflection of the line drive, and the very good effort getting to the ball, she wouldn't have been in position to make the throw in the first place.

    As an observer, if one has to think about it or debate, then it's a hit. I've seen too many scorekeepers try to parse defensive plays that they've NEVER done themselves, and holding players to an unreasonable standard of "routine" for strange hops, wicked spins, wind, crushed balls, and fast runners. Not trying to throw a rock at you, but some overthink this stuff way too much.

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    I eat, sleep and breathe softball CoogansBluff's Avatar
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    I'm going to disagree with a few things. Not meant as the final word, but just my opinion ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike2 View Post
    The kid may have judged that she needed to get the throw off quicker than what was really necessary, which might be a mental mistake, but not an "error" as the rules define it.
    If this were purely a mental mistake, then yes. But this was a physical misplay, too. It’s a mental mistake not to keep your glove down on a grounder, and to charge a hard grounder too aggressively. DD did this in LF recently. Overplayed a hard single, tried to make a do-or-die play on a base-runner, and it skipped off her glove to the fence. Mental error, but also physical. E-7. Her misjudgment didn't excuse the physical misplay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike2 View Post
    If not for pitcher's deflection of the line drive, and the very good effort getting to the ball, she wouldn't have been in position to make the throw in the first place.
    Still have to make a good throw if a good throw is routine, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike2 View Post
    As an observer, if one has to think about it or debate, then it's a hit. I've seen too many scorekeepers try to parse defensive plays that they've NEVER done themselves, and holding players to an unreasonable standard of "routine" for strange hops, wicked spins, wind, crushed balls, and fast runners.
    Completely agree that scorekeepers often hold fielders to unrealistic standards. As you stated earlier, benefit of the doubt goes to hitter. However, I don’t agree that if you have to think or debate it that it’s a hit. Sometimes a play requires more thought and debate to reach clarity.
    Last edited by CoogansBluff; 05-21-2017 at 11:43 PM.

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    I can talk softball all day flipper14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad4Ball View Post
    Ball is a line drive up the middle. Pitcher gets some of it with her glove slowing it down. SS comes running in hard to make the play at first but rushes the throw and pulls 1st of her base and the runner is safe. If SS took her time with the throw she had enough time to get the runner at first but if she had not gotten there so quickly the runner might have been safe regardless.

    Is this an error on the SS?
    I was a statistician in the NBA for nearly a decade and one of the guys on our crew is an MLB scorekeeper. I of course watch baseball but I don't think I even understood how strictly I was assessing the softball scoring decisions I was making until I started asking him questions, or even sending him videos on difficult calls.

    First, I think softball is much more difficult to score than baseball because of the close proximity of the bases, which makes it difficult to know on a slight bobble, for example, if a player still would have made it had the ball been fielded cleanly. Those are tough judgment calls.

    As for this play, a ball being knocked off a pitchers glove hit hard enough not to charge the pitcher with an error on a ball that you describe as "a line drive up the middle" you are penalizing the hitter and the shortstop in favor of a pitcher who just gave up a line drive up the middle that if she doesn't get a glove on is a hit anyway.

    I'd say clearly a hit in this scenario. This was not an "ordinary effort" play by the shortstop as described.

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    Certified softball maniac smddad's Avatar
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    CB, you're overthinking this to the nth degree. This is a hit all day long.
    I was wondering why the softball was getting bigger; then it hit me.

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    I eat, sleep and breathe softball CoogansBluff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smddad View Post
    CB, you're overthinking this to the nth degree. This is a hit all day long.
    Not arguing the call so much as the logic.

    I don't think we should award hits because we had to think long and hard, or because it was a line drive, or because the play was unusual, or because it is what a pitcher or hitter deserved, or because the fielder made a helluva a play just to field it in the first place.

    I'm more interested in the difficulty of the throw itself.

    Consider this play -

    ''Batter lays down bunt. 3B comes running in hard to make the play at first but rushes the throw and pulls 1st of her base and the runner is safe. If 3B took her time with the throw she had enough time to get the runner at first.''

    How would y'all rule that?

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