Scoring Question

Softball scholar · May 19, 2017

Every play is different but the rebound off the pitcher to SS to 1B is normally a complicated play, and the SS has to always rush it. I think 99% time a hit. Maybe exception is , say SS gets the ball off pitcher really quick on an easy bounce, and you have extremely slow runner, and SS makes horrible throw then maybe an error.

How about this one. Routine high fly ball to outfielder, outfielder comes into much and total misreads ball. Outfielder gets close but tries to catch ball but totally whiffs. Doesn't hit her glove (Just misses). Do your score that a hit an error?

TMD · May 19, 2017

Softball scholar said:
How about this one. Routine high fly ball to outfielder, outfielder comes into much and total misreads ball. Outfielder gets close but tries to catch ball but totally whiffs. Doesn't hit her glove (Just misses). Do your score that a hit an error?

Well, according to the NCAA rules, this would not be an error.

14.22 No Error is Charged
14.22.8 When a fly ball is misjudged and the fielder cannot recover in time to make the play.

CoogansBluff · May 19, 2017

chinamigarden said:
Sounds like an error to me.

Having read back over the OP, I'll hitch my wagon here.

F6 had the ball cleanly with enough time to get the batter/runner and threw it away.

E-6

Give batter a hand for her line drive. Give F6 a hand for her speed, alertness and hustle.

However, as I understand the facts:

1. F6 had the ball in time to make the play.

2. F6 threw it away.

That's an error.

FP26 · May 19, 2017

CoogansBluff said:
Having read back over the OP, I'll hitch my wagon here.

F6 had the ball cleanly with enough time to get the batter/runner and threw it away.

E-6

Give batter a hand for her line drive. Give F6 a hand for her speed, alertness and hustle.

However, as I understand the facts:

1. F6 had the ball in time to make the play.

2. F6 threw it away.

That's an error.

Based on the bold above, I would also score this E-6. If there is any doubt that a clean throw would have resulted in an out, I would credit a hit. JMHO.

Greenmonsters · May 19, 2017

CoogansBluff said:
Having read back over the OP, I'll hitch my wagon here.

F6 had the ball cleanly with enough time to get the batter/runner and threw it away.

E-6

Give batter a hand for her line drive. Give F6 a hand for her speed, alertness and hustle.

However, as I understand the facts:

1. F6 had the ball in time to make the play.

2. F6 threw it away.

That's an error.

You need to consider time and space. Once the line drive reflects off the pitcher's glove, the time element becomes non-routine IMO i.e., most often a deflectedball leaves less time for a play at first. As the situation has been explained, I'm inclined to rule H. But...I'd take into consideration how hard the ball was hit, the change in direction and speed caused by the deflection etc..

If the ball wasn't smoked, it might be an E on F1 although they do get some 'special' consideration under scoring guidelines.

grcsftbll · May 19, 2017

Would anyone score it an error on the pitcher, since her glove deflected it? Usually any hard hit ball I will not score an error on the pitcher because of reaction time at that distance. Just curious.

Down and Out · May 19, 2017

grcsftbll said:
Would anyone score it an error on the pitcher, since her glove deflected it? Usually any hard hit ball I will not score an error on the pitcher because of reaction time at that distance. Just curious.

Reading directly from the "Pitcher's Parent Code of Score Keeping" Never E1 always E6. Or you could score it E3 if she didn't try hard enough to catch it. Then I'd have pitcher talk to coach after the inning about crappy pitch calling.

In all seriousness, I don't think any deflected ball is routine. Plus a line drive up the middle means she probably missed her spot fat and needs to be responsible for giving up the hit. No errors on this play for me.

flipper14 · May 19, 2017

flipper14 said:
I was a statistician in the NBA for nearly a decade and one of the guys on our crew is an MLB scorekeeper. I of course watch baseball but I don't think I even understood how strictly I was assessing the softball scoring decisions I was making until I started asking him questions, or even sending him videos on difficult calls.

First, I think softball is much more difficult to score than baseball because of the close proximity of the bases, which makes it difficult to know on a slight bobble, for example, if a player still would have made it had the ball been fielded cleanly. Those are tough judgment calls.

As for this play, a ball being knocked off a pitchers glove hit hard enough not to charge the pitcher with an error on a ball that you describe as "a line drive up the middle" you are penalizing the hitter and the shortstop in favor of a pitcher who just gave up a line drive up the middle that if she doesn't get a glove on is a hit anyway.

I'd say clearly a hit in this scenario. This was not an "ordinary effort" play by the shortstop as described.

Just got a text back from my friend who is an MLB official scorer. So much for my reasoning. He said MLB's standard is that "no matter how great of a fielding play a guy makes, once he gets himself in a good throwing position, he's responsible for making a good throw and any actions he takes should be judged accordingly."

FP26 · May 20, 2017

grcsftbll said:
Would anyone score it an error on the pitcher, since her glove deflected it? Usually any hard hit ball I will not score an error on the pitcher because of reaction time at that distance. Just curious.

I am typically more "forgiving" with the pitcher since she is closer to the point of impact and rarely in a good defensive position. At least not right away. Much less time to react. That said, I have never agreed with the rules surrounding "earned runs". If a pitcher does truly make an error, why wouldn't runs associated with it be earned? It was the pitcher's error.... I guess that is a rant for another thread. Lol!

In regards to deflections. I have seen pitchers deflect balls that would have been a routine play for the shortstop, that ultimately ended up as a clean hit. I have seen others that would have been a clean single up the middle turned into a 4-3 or 6-3 ground out. Heck, I even saw a line drive bounce off the pitcher's head (luckily wasn't hurt seriously) and caught by the 2nd baseman. All depends on the situation of the play. That's where the scorer needs to use some judgement. I made my decision simply based on the description provided by the OP. If I actually witnessed the play in question, I may think differently.

razzo5 · May 20, 2017

Mad4Ball said:
Ball is a line drive up the middle. Pitcher gets some of it with her glove slowing it down. SS comes running in hard to make the play at first but rushes the throw and pulls 1st of her base and the runner is safe. If SS took her time with the throw she had enough time to get the runner at first but if she had not gotten there so quickly the runner might have been safe regardless.

Is this an error on the SS?

To answer you question. Yes, error on the SS. No hit for the batter. Score as E6

Scoring Question

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