I was just about to write the same thing as CoachJD...there are certainly issues with many HS programs but the opportunities to play or learn a new sport while in school is huge. If it all goes away and becomes a "private" deal there will be many kids who never get to even experience most sports.
School Choice and High School Athletics
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I was just about to write the same thing as CoachJD...there are certainly issues with many HS programs but the opportunities to play or learn a new sport while in school is huge. If it all goes away and becomes a "private" deal there will be many kids who never get to even experience most sports.
Cannonball
Ex "Expert"
- Feb 25, 2009
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Per the voucher or charter school systems, in a way that has happened for a very long time. Some of the best athletes in the metro end up at a couple of private schools. That is amazing considering that most of them didn't attend those grade or middle schools in that faith. No one is to suggest that those athletes are recruited because you will be attacked. Still, you have to beat those schools if you want to advance. It can be done.
this is very narrowly minded, D.
a lot of families across the USA don't have the means to pay thousands of $$$ per season for their kids to participate in non-scholastic sports programs.
Corlay, With all due respect, just because my view on this is matter differs from yours does not necessarily mean it is "very narrowly minded."
Being able to point out the benefits of high school sports is not sufficient. One must also point out the costs, including implicit opportunity cost (i.e., the resources used in high school sports have highly-valued alternative uses).
The following is a debate on this matter. While I tend to agree with the side opposing sports in high school, I don't see either side as being "very narrowly minded."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqzM1fBpXzk
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I can understand the debate to eliminate school sports programs and re-direct those expenditures elsewhere,
and that's is a reasonable conversation to have, perhaps.
But to say that: "I think we all know that in most areas now most sports offered in high school would thrive just fine if high schools didn't have them."
Comes off as completely callous to me. There's just no way that non-school sports programs would or could support equal participation, the way school programs currently do,
without devising a way to make them non-exclusionary with regard to cost and/or transportation issues that would result, for example.
corlay, I said the sports "would thrive" without them being in high school. I didn't say anything regarding "equal participation."
It may come off as being "completely callous" to you, but I could also invoke the "completely callous" regarding your stance.
Adding to my previous post... The proclamation of "equal participation" isn't sufficient to warrant full-out provision (team sports) in education. Those total tax dollars spent on high school sports might well have much higher net returns if focused more on the very students you are worried about not having "equal" treatment. I don't know about you, but if money is going to be extracted from me (taxes), I'd like those funds to give the biggest bang for the buck. The biggest bang for the buck isn't necessarily having the current sports setup in high schools. It could well be that redirecting those funds, even away from sports, would improve the well-being of those you and I are concerned about.
It may come off as being "completely callous" to you, but I could also invoke the "completely callous" regarding your stance.
Adding to my previous post... The proclamation of "equal participation" isn't sufficient to warrant full-out provision (team sports) in education. Those total tax dollars spent on high school sports might well have much higher net returns if focused more on the very students you are worried about not having "equal" treatment. I don't know about you, but if money is going to be extracted from me (taxes), I'd like those funds to give the biggest bang for the buck. The biggest bang for the buck isn't necessarily having the current sports setup in high schools. It could well be that redirecting those funds, even away from sports, would improve the well-being of those you and I are concerned about.
Getting back on topic --
Wisconsin already has a certain amount of open enrollment. My kids go to a school called James Madison Memorial HS. That is the nearest HS in Madison, but the nearest HS geographically is in the suburb of Verona, SW of Madison. Many kids in our neighborhood attend the Verona schools, which tend to have better athletic programs. The local elementary school is great, but many of them transfer for middle school and high school. Many of the kids my kids went to elementary school with are in the same houses, but attend Verona HS. I have sometimes seen the star of the Verona HS softball team getting in her car while driving my kids to school. Some kids in the NW part of town attend Middleton HS, which also has a number of athletes who live in the Madison district, but attend the suburb of Middleton schools.
We know a few kids in the Memorial district who attend private schools. If there were vouchers, that number might increase, which would further damage the sports programs in Madison.
Madison has an interesting rule for the city. There are 4 high schools in the city. If you transfer to a different HS inside the city, even if your family moved, you have to sit out a season.
Wisconsin already has a certain amount of open enrollment. My kids go to a school called James Madison Memorial HS. That is the nearest HS in Madison, but the nearest HS geographically is in the suburb of Verona, SW of Madison. Many kids in our neighborhood attend the Verona schools, which tend to have better athletic programs. The local elementary school is great, but many of them transfer for middle school and high school. Many of the kids my kids went to elementary school with are in the same houses, but attend Verona HS. I have sometimes seen the star of the Verona HS softball team getting in her car while driving my kids to school. Some kids in the NW part of town attend Middleton HS, which also has a number of athletes who live in the Madison district, but attend the suburb of Middleton schools.
We know a few kids in the Memorial district who attend private schools. If there were vouchers, that number might increase, which would further damage the sports programs in Madison.
Madison has an interesting rule for the city. There are 4 high schools in the city. If you transfer to a different HS inside the city, even if your family moved, you have to sit out a season.
As to the virtues of HS sports--
Someone did a study of HS sports participants in Madison.
On one hand, there are some low income kids who participate in sports. OTOH, higher income kids participate MORE.
The study found that the richer the kid's family, the higher the rate of participation.
Also, white kids were most likely to participate, with Asian kids in second place. I noticed that a large number of the Asian kids who have been teammates of my kids have either been adopted, or were mixed race. At one point one of the local high schools had 4 pitchers on varsity, and only one was white. Of the other 3, two were Asian kids adopted by white families, and one is half-white and half-Asian. There was one winter I was able to take my daughter to that HS for pitching practice. One time there were 4 girls pitching, all Asian or half-Asian, and all were being caught by their white fathers.
However, a few sports like football, track and basketball have a high rate of African American participation, especially boys, and is sometimes a way for African American students from lower income groups to get scholarships to college.
Someone did a study of HS sports participants in Madison.
On one hand, there are some low income kids who participate in sports. OTOH, higher income kids participate MORE.
The study found that the richer the kid's family, the higher the rate of participation.
Also, white kids were most likely to participate, with Asian kids in second place. I noticed that a large number of the Asian kids who have been teammates of my kids have either been adopted, or were mixed race. At one point one of the local high schools had 4 pitchers on varsity, and only one was white. Of the other 3, two were Asian kids adopted by white families, and one is half-white and half-Asian. There was one winter I was able to take my daughter to that HS for pitching practice. One time there were 4 girls pitching, all Asian or half-Asian, and all were being caught by their white fathers.
However, a few sports like football, track and basketball have a high rate of African American participation, especially boys, and is sometimes a way for African American students from lower income groups to get scholarships to college.
In the public schools don't think it will make too much of an impact. But as others have said, it's been going on in private schools for a long time. It's a bit seedy sometimes how they work it out, but it pays off. I live near a high end boys private school and half the football team is from another state, with a good portion of the team already signed to college.
The topic includes the word "choice." Anything that incorporates "choice" would be better than situations where you have no choice. We speak of vouchers for having choice in education. Vouchers for sports could also be appealing regarding kids who don't have the financial means.
