Offense vs Defense

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Jun 27, 2011
5,089
0
North Carolina
Catcher is fairly similar. Some of the stat freaks looked at MLB catchers. They wanted to see what was the minimum batting average for a great defensive catcher compared to a great hitting catcher. They decided that even with a batting average of .000, the great defensive catcher is more valuable. Just framing the pitches well can be worth > 1 run per game, and the best hitting catchers aren't worth > 1 run per game on average.

Ivan Rodriguez - even if he'd batted .000 - would be more valuable than Mike Piazza?
 
Jul 19, 2014
2,390
48
Madison, WI
The study didn't look at those particular catchers, since they are both retired, but that is likely.

The study claimed that Yadier Molina would be more valuable than the best hitting catcher, even if Molina bat .000

Sorry, Giants fans.
 
Jul 19, 2014
2,390
48
Madison, WI
Having both is really good.

G.H. Ruth (Red Sox), S. Carlton (Phillies) and F., Valenzuela (Dodgers) often had more RBI than runs allowed when they pitched.

Ruth was interesting.

His first year as a pitcher he led the AL in ERA.
His second year as a pitcher he led the AL in wins.
His third year as a pitcher he tied for the AL lead in HR hit. (7, but that was the Dead Ball Era).
 

obbay

Banned
Aug 21, 2008
2,199
0
Boston, MA
I have always been an advocate of strong offense, partly because both DD's are good hitters :D
Where I live I have heard WAY too often that "Defense wins games". what these "dad's with a baseball background" fail to notice is:
1- the guy who said it was talking about football
2- scoring runs wins games, you cant score runs on defense.

these guys tended to focus their practices more on fielding and just expected the hitting to happen by itself.
also everyone in the lineup will hit as many times as their team enables them to. on defense, many will not make as many plays as they have at-bats.
 
Jul 19, 2014
2,390
48
Madison, WI
A lot of it depends on the pitcher.

A couple of girls I knew pitched for a local HS (NOT the one DD 3 attends, but close by).

Pitcher A was probably a little better pitcher than pitcher B.
Pitcher A was a great SS.
Pitcher B was one of the best fielders on the team, but wasn't a SS.
There were no other good SS on the team.

Both A and B were ground ball pitchers.

So, pitcher B started most games, and had a better W-L record. Some of B's best victories were because of fantastic plays made at SS by A.

Although DD 3 had a lot of Ks when she was on a weak-fielding team, she is mostly a ground ball pitcher. Her best games have been when she has had a solid IF, esp. SS.
When she has played on teams with a weak IF, esp. SS, she has lost games where she has gotten quite a few Ks.
Now that she is on a better team, she has far fewer Ks and far more ground-outs.
 
Apr 12, 2016
316
28
Minnesota
This is an interesting discussion. I know it is important to score runs, but how many games do teams lose because they gave the other team 4 outs instead of 3 in 1-2 innings. Get me out of the inning and let me hit even if my team doesn't kill the ball. The actual question asking about at what point does a hitter become a liability is a good one. If a .350 hitter gives up an extra hit on defense every other game and makes an error every three games, is that more valuable than having a .275 hitter who makes every play on defense?
 
Jun 27, 2011
5,089
0
North Carolina
If a .350 hitter gives up an extra hit on defense every other game and makes an error every three games, is that more valuable than having a .275 hitter who makes every play on defense?

Depends on whether you're talking a college game (7 innings) or typical travel ball team. But a .350 hitter gets about 1 more hit than a .275 hitter every 11 at-bats (roughly 3-4 college games). If the .350 hitter is giving away 1 more hit every 2 games and 1 more error every 3 games, then I'd say the .275 hitter/perfect fielder would be much more valuable.

Of course, there aren't many fielders who make every play, nor many who do that much damage on good college teams.
 

JAD

Feb 20, 2012
8,231
38
Georgia
It is always and adventure trying to decide between offensive firepower and defensive prowess, but what is more frustrating, watch a girl hitting .450 taking a bad angle on a fly ball in the OF, or watching a gold glove outfielder strike out for the 3rd time in a game...
 

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