In defense of HS ball

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Sep 30, 2013
155
28
Northwest, IN
I'm both a HS coach and TB coach. More importantly I feel I am a student of the game. I definitely don't pretend that I know it all. I also help run a HS coaching association in the state that I work in. I can tell you that the HS coaches that I have met through this organization are tremendous. Most coaches also run their own TB teams and organizations. A lot of them give back to the game, sharing ideas, thoughts, and drills. Our association puts on a coaching clinic every year with amazing presenters at it. This year we have Carol Bruggeman, and Rachel Folden, along with a HS coach or 2 to present as well. Every time we have our clinic, I always see the TB coaches there as well.

To be honest, I'm tired of hearing that HS ball is this or that and. Maybe YOUR HS coach or team is like that, but the programs and coaches I know are great organizations. I feel that HS coaches get a bad rap. Trust me, I'd love to have all elite players, and just manage the game. My HS boundaries don't allow for that. They give me the 11 - 13 girls I get for the year, some who last picked up a mitt at the last out of the previous season, to the D2/D1 pitcher who plays travel.

From that point, it's my job to make us competitive, and have skill improvements. It's great to see improvement from ALL of my players.


A quick story.
I also oversee and run TB practices, defense, hitting, and pitching for a new organization that just started up. An old friend of mine who is coaching his daughters 14u B travel team (that is with another organization) asked me to come out and watch a practice (his daughter will feed into our HS program). I was sick to my stomach. It's a hitting practice and all they have is a pitching machine from the mound, and a T to hit into a net. So 2 kids are hitting and the rest are shagging. UGG! I'm sorry I don't find this practice acceptable for any level of Travel Ball or HS ball.

So you can say what you want about HS coaching and HS ball is this or that, I think it truly depends on the coach! I've seen both good HS coaching and good TB coaching. I've also seen things from both that make me sick!!

Lastly, it's about being a student of the game, and growing. I've been coaching now for 20 years. I'm still learning, still e mailing coaches, and still working on my craft. If you find a TB or HS coach that knows it all, let me know! I have a ton of questions for them!
 
Last edited:
Nov 26, 2010
4,784
113
Michigan
My dd was the kid who was screwed by the HS coach. Except we refused to see it that way. 9th grade she pitched on JV the Junior on varsity was no where near as good. My dd would get on the bus and the V coach would ask her how many Ks she had. He didn't believe it when she said 19, his pitcher averaged 3. The v pitcher was like Michael Jackson on defense, she wore one glove for no particular reason. The v pitcher hit about 200 for her career. My dd hit 420 in her varsity time. Sophomore year this girl was still ahead of my dd. My dd was in right field. Instead of bitching and complaining my dd put her head down and did her best. Won several honors for playing RF. Got her chance as a junior and had 2 really good years, won all the same honors only as the pitcher.

We didn't bitcch and my dd got something more out of her HS career then just stats, she learned how to perform and how to excel under adverse conditions. To adapt and overcome. That's going to take her further then having 300 more Ks or 40 more wins on her HS varsity resume. Did I like it at the time? No but I didn't make it an excuse for my dd
 

obbay

Banned
Aug 21, 2008
2,199
0
Boston, MA
It's a hitting practice and all they have is a pitching machine from the mound, and a T to hit into a net.

that's like our HS practice, except for the pitching machine.

SB1221, you sound like one of the good ones. I wish you well and I wish we had a coach who was a student of the game. Ours has been coaching for 22 years so he knows everything already, doesn't need to learn anything more, including the rules of the game.
 
Sep 30, 2013
155
28
Northwest, IN
that's like our HS practice, except for the pitching machine.

SB1221, you sound like one of the good ones. I wish you well and I wish we had a coach who was a student of the game. Ours has been coaching for 22 years so he knows everything already, doesn't need to learn anything more, including the rules of the game.

Funny you mention rules of the game! At our coaches clinic this year we have an HS/TB HoF ump coming go over rules of the game!

Thanks so much for the compliment! Best of you luck to you and your season(s)!
 

Greenmonsters

Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Feb 21, 2009
6,168
38
New England
Absolutely when you take the statement as a whole instead of picking out the single comment. So, in your opinion a kid that is the ace pitcher and starting SS on an upper tier TB team is actually getting the same thing from playing HS ball that she is out of TB? Go a step further and couple that with on the HS team there is a kid playing SS or pitching that is no where near as talented as any of the other kids on the team, yet they are in that spot because of who their parents happen to be and you might get the point I was making... Like I said, the kid that is relegated to playing RF because her dad happens to work at the feed mill but has more talent and is proven better than the kids that have the starting spot is getting nothing out of HS ball... It is HS ball politics and it is the reason that many HS programs are struggling now - take the politics out and HS ball is not at all bad...

I have no issue with kids having to learn a new position or wait their turn when they are beaten out by other kids... The kids see it, the parents see it... However, I do have an issue with a kid making the team or being given a starting spot just because her dad happens to be president of the PTA or one of the "founding fathers"...

Maybe said relegated player isn't the top P or SS come time for college and maybe that OF experience is what gets her playing time.
 
Jul 19, 2014
2,390
48
Madison, WI
High school is a mixed bag for everything.
It's a time when kids learn to deal with good and bad teachers, students, coaches, etc.

I realized the past few days how DD 3 and I see her HS experience differently.
She is the youngest of 4 kids, and it is sometimes hard for me to stay interested in a school my kids have been attending since 2010.

But, DD 3 is determined to make the most of it.
So far she has:
Gone to summer Cross Country practices.
Convinced DD 2 to run CC as well.
Run a CC meet.
She will have her second CC meet tomorrow.
Attended several HS football games, even though the team always loses. Next game at Verona HS, then Sat morning CC meet at Verona HS.
She signed up for the math team and some other clubs.
She signed up for several volunteer organizations, including one where able bodied kids each lunch once a week with disabled kids so the disabled kids won't ever have to eat alone.
Signed up for spring HS softball
She signed up for a fall ball team with at least 5 students from her school on the team. First practice Sunday, first game the following Sunday.

And yesterday was her first day at school.

I know somewhere along the line bad students, bad teachers or bad coaches will bum her out. For now I'll let her enjoy her HS years.
 
Dec 19, 2012
1,428
0
Absolutely when you take the statement as a whole instead of picking out the single comment. So, in your opinion a kid that is the ace pitcher and starting SS on an upper tier TB team is actually getting the same thing from playing HS ball that she is out of TB? Go a step further and couple that with on the HS team there is a kid playing SS or pitching that is no where near as talented as any of the other kids on the team, yet they are in that spot because of who their parents happen to be and you might get the point I was making... Like I said, the kid that is relegated to playing RF because her dad happens to work at the feed mill but has more talent and is proven better than the kids that have the starting spot is getting nothing out of HS ball... It is HS ball politics and it is the reason that many HS programs are struggling now - take the politics out and HS ball is not at all bad...

I have no issue with kids having to learn a new position or wait their turn when they are beaten out by other kids... The kids see it, the parents see it... However, I do have an issue with a kid making the team or being given a starting spot just because her dad happens to be president of the PTA or one of the "founding fathers"...


HS ball and TB ball are different animals, and a player gets different things out of both. My dd became a much better player AND person thanks to MS and HS ball. It taught her how to teach, advise, command, and how to earn respect from the older girls and become a leader. She has been thanked numerous times from the other parents of girls on the HS team for working with their dd's and having patience with them. She learned about community and the importance of sports in it. Parents of students still recognize her away from school. She still gets stopped to this day. She still gets contacted by girls on the HS team even though this is her 2nd year of college. My dd never had to deal with HS sports politics but she did in her early TB days. There's much more daddy ball and buddy ball in TB than there is in HS.
 
Nov 18, 2013
2,255
113
Absolutely when you take the statement as a whole instead of picking out the single comment. So, in your opinion a kid that is the ace pitcher and starting SS on an upper tier TB team is actually getting the same thing from playing HS ball that she is out of TB? Go a step further and couple that with on the HS team there is a kid playing SS or pitching that is no where near as talented as any of the other kids on the team, yet they are in that spot because of who their parents happen to be and you might get the point I was making... Like I said, the kid that is relegated to playing RF because her dad happens to work at the feed mill but has more talent and is proven better than the kids that have the starting spot is getting nothing out of HS ball... It is HS ball politics and it is the reason that many HS programs are struggling now - take the politics out and HS ball is not at all bad...

I have no issue with kids having to learn a new position or wait their turn when they are beaten out by other kids... The kids see it, the parents see it... However, I do have an issue with a kid making the team or being given a starting spot just because her dad happens to be president of the PTA or one of the "founding fathers"...

I do understand where you’re coming from. DD played on a very high level 14U team while also playing HS ball. She was a decent batter in TB, but she didn’t hit first year in HS or play in the field. She had no trouble with 14U pitching, but in HS many of the teams had 18U high level TB pitchers. She usually played 1B in TB if not pitching. The few girls that could hit off our other pitcher would hit soft bloopers or grounders. In HS our other pitcher would give up hard line drives that could take a girls head off. The overall talent isn’t as good in HS, but you’re still facing the best TB players in your area. Often times it comes down to experience or maturity as the reason younger, better, TB players don’t start right away in HS. Sure there’s politics, but I usually only saw that as the deciding factor is two kids were relatively the same.

Here’s the full statement. “IE when discussing how many pitchers / position players they get and the need to place players is very real but lets just say the ace pitcher and when not pitching starting SS for an upper level travel team is relegated to playing RF - exactly what is that player getting from school ball? The answer is nothing... “ I thought it came off as condescending toward kids playing OF that someone is too good to get anything out of playing there. It also falls into the stereotype of TB parents believing their kid should always be the center of attention at a key position instead of hidden away in RF.

There’s a lot about HS ball that sucks. More politics, the level of play often isn’t as high, coaching is hit or miss. Most frustrating perhaps is that only a few girls care about softball while the others are killing time until their main sports are in season. HS ball still has lots of opportunities. They can learn how to deal with adversity, become leaders, teach others or simply set an example. This can help get a girl recruited as well as what they do on the field. It will also prepare girls for the reality of college ball. I believe the reason so many girls quit is they expect to start and play every inning in at their favorite position. The reality is most freshman do a lot of sitting. If girls think that means they’re not getting anything out of it or can’t improve unless they’re on the field they’re not going to make it very far.
 
Jul 25, 2015
148
0
Here’s the full statement. “IE when discussing how many pitchers / position players they get and the need to place players is very real but lets just say the ace pitcher and when not pitching starting SS for an upper level travel team is relegated to playing RF - exactly what is that player getting from school ball? The answer is nothing... “ I thought it came off as condescending toward kids playing OF that someone is too good to get anything out of playing there. It also falls into the stereotype of TB parents believing their kid should always be the center of attention at a key position instead of hidden away in RF.

There’s a lot about HS ball that sucks. More politics, the level of play often isn’t as high, coaching is hit or miss. Most frustrating perhaps is that only a few girls care about softball while the others are killing time until their main sports are in season. HS ball still has lots of opportunities. They can learn how to deal with adversity, become leaders, teach others or simply set an example. This can help get a girl recruited as well as what they do on the field. It will also prepare girls for the reality of college ball. I believe the reason so many girls quit is they expect to start and play every inning in at their favorite position. The reality is most freshman do a lot of sitting. If girls think that means they’re not getting anything out of it or can’t improve unless they’re on the field they’re not going to make it very far.

I can see that from the statement that I made and that was not my intention and I am not looking at it from the "girl's" perspective as much as I am from a "coach" perspective... I coached HS ball and I coached TB, so I definitely know the differences between the two... I played the best player(s) in the best position for the team in both instances - I did not care about the local politics involved with school ball... If I needed a kid in RF, that is where she played and I made dang sure she was developed in that position for HER future - parents did not like it obviously but I never coached for the parents... We fielded competitive teams every year in HS ball and went deep in the State Tournament almost every year but I walked when the athletic director told me that I "would take two players in tryouts that did not make the cut and that they WOULD play" - there were more reasons for walking (like having the donors lined up to build a softball complex on the school campus for naming rights only being turned down) but I was not going to be told who to take and who had to play and where they had to play...

Luckily, I have the luxury of being a "parent" in the stands now but I still see it at just about every program in my area and coaches cower down to the political pressure in order to keep a job only to be fired a couple of years later because they are no longer fielding competitive teams...

Any way, no offense to the HS ball loving parents out there, I still love it and I still support it... If done right, kids definitely get something out of it but the problem is many programs are no longer doing it "right" or even making an honest attempt to do it "right"... That is a big reason you are seeing a lot of HS programs struggling and it really is a shame...
 

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