ROE and OBP

I had a friendly conversation with an assistant coach about how ROE's are counted. In my spreadsheet, I modified it 8-9 years ago so that when a player gets an ROE it counts towards their OBP. I know that according to official stats this is not to be the case. My argument is that speedy players and slappers tend to have more ROE's, because they cause the defense to make errors and it should go towards their OBP. Note that my stats are not official stats, but for me to use as tool for lineups and such.

How many others include an ROE in the OBP, and do you think that it should be included in the game of softball? My answer would be; yes it should.

I kept a similar stat for my first travel team, which was a bunch of 9-year-olds. As they get older, I see less value in it.

I don't think it needs to be an official softball stat. I would like to see someone study the assumption that slappers or certain players draw more ROE than other hitters at higher levels. I know people might be able to show that one player had 7 and another had 2 in a given season, but you'd have to have a lot of data to determine if that wasn't random. Slappers get a fair amount of benefit of the doubt on error vs. hit anyway. NCAA rules seem to encourage it.

What brought this up, is that I have a girl who has a very low batting average. No hits before our 2nd tournament this weekend. However, she had a .500 OBP. I told her before the game that I was putting her in the 2nd spot and the lead-off spot. Her job was to get on base any way possible. So yesterday in three games, she had 3-BB's, 1-ROE, 1-HBP and 1 single. She did everything I asked of her. She only got out once at the plate on a grounder. With that said, why should the batter get credited with an out, when they did not get out? No, I'm not going to credit her with a hit, but it should definitely go towards their OBP. There have been several articles written about this very subject how the MLB should give credit to those players who ROE and did not get out.

If anything, it makes for a fun discussion. And yes, I gave her credit for an ROE in my book.

smddad ... just like you, even though I knew it wasn't supposed to be included, I always did to help me manage the team ...

When I coached my son's baseball travel team I counted ROE in OBP up until around 12U. I consistently saw my fastest players create errors and I felt they should get credit for it. Same with really hard hit ground balls as opposed to softer hit balls. At 12U we started using gamechanger, so it wasn't really an option any more.

OBP is calculated based on events that the batter controls (for the most part). An error is controlled (or uncontrolled if you get what I mean) by the fielder, period. ROE is counted separately when calculating wOBA, so there's no need to fudge the scoring because it "feels" like you owe it to the batter.


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BuckeyeGuy said:

OBP is calculated based on events that the batter controls (for the most part). An error is controlled (or uncontrolled if you get what I mean) by the fielder, period. ROE is counted separately when calculating wOBA, so there's no need to fudge the scoring because it "feels" like you owe it to the batter.

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A walk is controlled by the pitcher if the batter just stands there, and no strikes are thrown. A batter has even less "control" if the pitcher hits her.

Both count towards OBP.

I agree with the OP.

Although, it may not be officially counted it does matter if you really want to manage the team and make the most of your lineup.

DD reaches base around 20% of the time due to defensive miscues. They prepare so much for her speed that they rush the play and usually make a mistake trying too hard.

I have not included ROE in my OBP stats but have considered it. Looking back at the different teams and players I've worked with, generally speaking the OBP creates a more accurate picture to me if it includes ROE.

I also think the call of an error or not should be a sliding scale depending on the level you are playing at. I knew a guy who kept a book that would credit errors to U16 Rec League players if he thought an MLB player could've made the play (no, his DD wasn't pitching)

BuckeyeGuy said:

OBP is calculated based on events that the batter controls (for the most part). An error is controlled (or uncontrolled if you get what I mean) by the fielder, period. ROE is counted separately when calculating wOBA, so there's no need to fudge the scoring because it "feels" like you owe it to the batter.


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Click to expand...

From what I have read here at DFP recently about wOBA, it looks like a great stat and the correct solution to this question at all ages and levels of play. I wish iScore or GC calculated it though, that stat seems out of reach when I look at how it is calculated.