Dealing with a delusional parent who thinks he is a coach

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Nov 26, 2010
4,784
113
Michigan
I think the solution is clear. She keeps missing practices. And her dad is calling pitches for her. A pitcher who is missing practice either gets benched, or plays the minimum required innings in LF. Then dad can call all the pitches he wants.
 
Jun 18, 2010
2,624
38
We asked the pitcher if she could throw some BP to the team to help get them used to faster pitching. Didn't want her to do anything but throw fastballs down the middle so the girls could work on timing. She complies, and he starts yelling at her for not throwing all of her pitches, or picking the corners. When I walked over and calmly explained what we were trying to do, he said he was trying to make sure she was ready for a state championship game, and if a batter was standing in front of her, she should never do anything but try and strike them out. This was last year, when all of the girls were in 6th grade.

**Disclaimer I'm a pitcher's dad.**

The pitcher's dad is right in this instance, imho. If you want fastballs right down the middle, get a pitching machine. The pitcher is there to compete, and work on hitting her spots, not grooving FBs down the middle of the plate. Are you trying to get her head taken off throwing fastballs down the middle?

You've painted this pitchers dad out to be a jerk, but there are two sides to every story.
1. He probably knows her strengths and weakness better than the HC and AC.
2. He probably knows what she's working on trying to improve, and wants to see her get more game experience in that area.
3. A change up is one of the hardest, if not the hardest pitch to master for many. I don't blame him for wanting to see it called more versus live hitting, it takes a long time to develop, and gain confidence in that pitch. So what if a few batters are walked throwing CUs in a rec league.
4. You've let him into your dugout and call pitches so far, now you want to shift gears. IMHO, this is something you talk about after the season, and establish new rules going into the start of the next season.
5. So what if he thinks she has seven pitches, often times pitching coaches teach many different pitches in hopes that, over time, she is able to master one or two. Some have a propensity to throw better drop balls than rise, others better screw balls than curve. If you don't try this different pitches, you many not find the one that you pitcher clicks with and can throw with confidence.
6. He has a vested interest is seeing his daughter succeed, and in turn your team succeed. I'm sure he is not throwing CUs on 3-1 counts for his DD to intentionally walk batters, but for her to turn the corner and gain confidence for her to throw a CU on a 3 ball count.
 
Apr 17, 2017
10
0
Bolivar, Ohio
Knights, I pitched quite a bit growing up, and even threw a no-hitter once. Not to brag, just to point out i'm not clueless when it comes to pitching in games vs practices. I have quite a bit of personal experience. This is how i see the situation;

There is a BELIEF held by many that throwing pitches in games is more valuable than doing it in practices. Somehow throwing a specific pitch in a game situation is worth 2 or 3 reps in practice, or it conditions you psychologically for game situations which the backyard can never simulate. I understand the logic, but how exactly can that be proven? It can't. Someone simply gave that argument at some time to dad/daughter, and that person had some authority (i'm an established PC, or my daughter is a good pitcher, or whatever) or they did a good job articulating the argument and the parent simply bought into the logic.

What if i'm a PC and i first establish myself as some sort of authority figure with XYZ credentials, then tell a new dad/pitcher that the absolute worst thing you can do is throw pitches in a game that you have not mastered yet because you will continually fail while everyone is watching, and it could permanently ruin your confidence in the pitch because bad memories will surface every time the pitch is called, and you will ultimately never be able to throw it well? I'm absolutely sure i could convince most newcomers to the pitching scene of that logic, and it would be equally unprovable, and equally logical.

in another example, what if i told you i was learning to throw left and right-handed, and as one of your starting pitchers, when i pitch, i insist on pitching at least 30% of my pitches left-handed, even though i have no chance of being successful? I then recite the often-heard explanation of game experience being invaluable compared to practice, etc. This might sound like an extreme example, but it isn't. it's the exact same situation, only easier to understand the absurdity. Who in their right mind would let some kid throw in games with their off-hand just because they believe in the magical benefit of doing things in game situations?

Simply put, i don't believe that pitching in game situations has special significance that can't be found in practices. Is there more pressure in a game? Yes. Does that automatically mean every kid responds the same way to the pressure? No. Does success in a game build confidence faster than in practice? I think yes. Does failure in a game erode confidence faster than in practice? Again i think yes. Failure when the lights are brightest could have either effect. Maybe it's my background in physics that causes me to be skeptical of anything that can't be demonstrated or proven, but i find that argument really tiring. It's something people have to believe, it's not a fact.

The actual dad relative to this post is about as far from a baseball/softball person as you could find. I can literally throw farther with my off hand than he can with his dominant. He did not grow up around the game and it is evident in the way his advice is clearly just stuff he heard somewhere which he repeats but always applies to the wrong situations. A girl is missing the ball and he tells her to choke up, not able to recognize she is actually swinging early. That's a literal example. i could give dozens, but i digress. Probably the most annoying thing about dealing with this dad is that he takes whatever the PC says, and accepts it as gospel. He has no foundational understanding to critically analyze anything and form his own opinion.

I'll end this post with a question for trojans29. Do you think if the PC had told said dad that his daughter's best chance to pitch in college would be to pitch left handed, and gave some argument of authority for the reasoning, that dad would have accepted it, and we would be dealing with her trying to pitch lefty? I genuinely think that outside of the fact that the learning curve would be so steep and he wouldn't have the patience to wait that long for her to be in the spotlight, he would have done it.
 
Jun 18, 2010
2,624
38
Simply put, i don't believe that pitching in game situations has special significance that can't be found in practices. Is there more pressure in a game? Yes. Does that automatically mean every kid responds the same way to the pressure? No. Does success in a game build confidence faster than in practice? I think yes. Does failure in a game erode confidence faster than in practice? Again i think yes. Failure when the lights are brightest could have either effect. Maybe it's my background in physics that causes me to be skeptical of anything that can't be demonstrated or proven, but i find that argument really tiring. It's something people have to believe, it's not a fact.

You're kidding right?

Then you've never really felt the pressure, the intense pressure, that occurs only when it (the game) is on the line.

There are many athletes have faded from the top of their respective sport, because they are unable to perform under real game time pressure.

I totally disagree, the mental toughness it takes (choose any position) is not the same in practice as it is in the actual game. The stakes are higher.

BTW, were you the HC when this pitcher was asked to pipe fastballs down the middle for BP?
 
Jun 18, 2010
2,624
38
The actual dad relative to this post is about as far from a baseball/softball person as you could find. I can literally throw farther with my off hand than he can with his dominant. He did not grow up around the game and it is evident in the way his advice is clearly just stuff he heard somewhere which he repeats but always applies to the wrong situations. A girl is missing the ball and he tells her to choke up, not able to recognize she is actually swinging early. That's a literal example. i could give dozens, but i digress. Probably the most annoying thing about dealing with this dad is that he takes whatever the PC says, and accepts it as gospel. He has no foundational understanding to critically analyze anything and form his own opinion.

I'll end this post with a question for trojans29. Do you think if the PC had told said dad that his daughter's best chance to pitch in college would be to pitch left handed, and gave some argument of authority for the reasoning, that dad would have accepted it, and we would be dealing with her trying to pitch lefty? I genuinely think that outside of the fact that the learning curve would be so steep and he wouldn't have the patience to wait that long for her to be in the spotlight, he would have done it.

If this guy is as bad as you've made him out to be, then why on earth was he given access to the dugout, and why is he allowed to call pitches?
 
Apr 18, 2017
52
18
I'll let Benny articulate more, but I'm not sure Knight understood what he was saying. No one would argue that there isn't more pressure in a game than practice. I believe what he is trying to say is that if you can't even throw a pitch consistently in practice, the game isn't the place to "learn" the pitch. If she can throw the pitches in practice, by all means, introduce them in pressure situations in a game. Would you apply that logic to another position? You said you were a pitcher's father. Let's imagine for a minute that there is a girl learning to be a catcher for the first time. Are you saying you would be ok in a game situation to have the new catcher catch your daughter with the thought she needs to learn how to receive pitches and block balls in a game situation, not in practice. You have know that sounds ridiculous. I know i will probably get some pushback on this statement, but pitchers aren't special. They are 1 of 9. As a coach, the same rules of development in practice vs. game have to apply. If we won't allow position players to 'learn on the fly' while they throw balls to the wrong bases, and not know coverages or cuts, then why would we allow the pitcher to do the same?
 
Apr 17, 2017
10
0
Bolivar, Ohio
How did i manage to avoid all the intense game pressure while being a pitcher for several years?

Your point about athletes fading from their sport because they can't perform under pressure enforces my point as much as your own. The pressure broke them, which I was suggesting could happen. Someone who forces kids into pressure situations because they blindly subscribe to an unprovable philosophy is just as likely to break the kid as make them. My issue is with the all or nothing approach when following this philosophy. why is this not accepted as something you try to do when the circumstances allow, instead of saying "no analysis is needed, it's always best to make kids try things in games, regardless of their character/psychology/circumstances/etc."? I'm not even disagreeing that there can be some benefits of performing in pressure situations. It's when you put the polarized glasses on and say "this is always true without exception" that you lose me.
 
Jun 18, 2010
2,624
38
[MENTION=15705]Trojans29[/MENTION] thanks for that clarification.

IMO:
Yes, there is a process for mastering a skill or task, and I do agree if the pitcher is unable to demonstrate the ability to throw certain pitches in practice then they have no business attempting them during the game.
The pitcher's father shows poor judgement in calling pitches during a game that cannot be reasonably demonstrated in practice.
The HC shows poor judgement by how pitchers are used in BP, and allowing inexperienced / under qualified parents in the dugout calling pitches.

[MENTION=15704]Benny13082[/MENTION], you words were
Simply put, i don't believe that pitching in game situations has special significance that can't be found in practices.
I disagree. Pitching in game situations inherently has special significance because it IS the game versus practice. There is data and studies that show a physical affect to the body when under pressure and in stressful situations. The muscles tighten, the blood pressure rises, the heart rate increases, etc. Anyone who has been around this game for any length of time can attest there is much, much less pressure/stress throwing practice, or warmups versus a game. I also believe there is a correlation between the relative importance of the game/event and the amount or degree of pressure/stress. All that to say, I know for my DD the more exposure she gets to throwing under pressure/stress the better she's able to cope. So, I have no problems with a pitch caller, calling changeups during a rec league game to help improve that pitch both mentally and physically (assuming that pitch ability can be demonstrated outside of the game).
 
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Apr 18, 2017
52
18
IMO:
The HC shows poor judgement by how pitchers are used in BP, and allowing inexperienced / under qualified parents in the dugout calling pitches.

For more clarification, the BP incident was 1 time, two seasons ago. At that point the pitcher was a good ways ahead of most of our hitters. The main purpose was to for the girls to see the kind of speed they would face as we got into higher end tournaments. It's not like the pitcher can't get anything out of such a session. Keeping the ball down the middle takes as much control as throwing for the corners. She can still work on mechanics, release point etc. This isn't something we do routinely. In fact, the only other times she has pitched to our own team is during inter-squad scrimmages at which point she is free to throw whatever and wherever she wants.

For the second part of the quote, I agree, and that is a lot of what this thread was about. In hindsight, he should have never been allowed into the dugout to call pitches. Remember that we have had these girls since 8U, and while both of us are baseball guys, we had limited experience with softball in the beginning. I wrongly conceded that since he had been to all of her pitching lessons, he knew better than anyone what pitches she could throw when. The problem is since he was neither a baseball or a softball guy, he doesn't understand anything situationally. He can only see in terms of she hasn't thrown a change-up in a few batters, so I better call one. And of course situationally he doesn't understand that we are up 1 with 2 outs and a speedy runner on first, and her change up which looks like an adult beer league slow-pitch, guarantees that we won't be able to throw her out stealing. Again, the problem is one of our own making, but here we are.
 
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