Was I right, runner hit by ball question

This play happened in my practice last night. 8U, very young team, we need a lot of work but we're getting better. Playing a little 6 on 6 scrimmage just to get them a bit of a feel for how the game flows. I'm pitching but also trying to call outs so that the girls can start to understand what to expect in our live games.

Runner on 1st, batter hits a decently hard hit grounder between the 1B and 2B. Both of them do break for the ball (which was good to see) but neither could quite make it to it and it gets through. We play quite a bit up in 8U league as we don't get too many hard hits. Runner from 1st get hits by the ball about 2-3 ft behind the fielders, right fielder would not have a play on the ball, if we had a right fielder which we did not in this particular situation.

It's 8U so most of the parents only think they know the rules. I called the play dead, runner safe at 1st and 2nd. A few of the parents were insisting that the runner should be out because she was hit by the ball and was interference. Since the ball couldn't have a play on it, I said it wouldn't be interference. I think I messed up by calling the play dead (no big deal, it's practice and now we get to practice force out at 3rd situation) as I think reading the rules that should actually be a live ball, play on, but I'm pretty sure that it's NOT an automatic out, either.

Am I right about all of the above? And does anyone know if baseball rules are similar? One of the parents has a kid on a club baseball team in our area and he was pretty sure that the runner is automatically out in baseball, but I have no idea. I'm just going by what I think I've been learning by reading on here for the past couple of years.

Second questions, would the ruling change if the player running *kicked* the ball (not on purpose, but just as in her normal stride hit the ball and sent it off in a weird direction?) If it was intentionally kicked, then I have to assume it'd be interference, but an accidental one (in umpire's judgement of course) I wasn't sure what the ruling would be. This didn't happen, just something I started thinking about.

Thanks!


Oh, Third question, this happened a few years ago but I just want to make sure I understand it. Again 8U team (my older daughter's at this point.) Runner on 1st and 2nd. Small pop fly in infield that would've been a tough but possible play for a 2nd basemen to get to. Runner from 1st gets bonked right in the helmet by the ball which sends it way out into right field in the air. Our right fielder SOMEHOW catches the ball that never hit the ground. It's the 3rd out, game is over, we win. We're all going crazy in the dugout because we know the game is over. BUT the question is: the runner was out as soon as she was hit in the situation, right? And if there were less than 2 outs, it's a dead ball situation where the runner is out, but the batter is safe on 1st? I'm not going to tell a 7y/o right fielder that her catch didn't count for the 3rd out, but umpire did let the coaches know that the runner was already out by the time she made the catch and it didn't really matter.

I can’t offer an opinion on the rules at the moment, but I will offer my sympathy due to the fact you have parents arguing calls during an intra-squad scrimmage.


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Once the ball has passed an infielder and no other fielder has a play it is simply nothing if it hits the runner. Ball remains live. Unless they intentionally kick it, again it's nothing.

Your last question, was runner still on a base when ball hit them? If on a base runner is not out. If the ball hits anything other than another defensive player it cannot still be caught as a fly ball.

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Gags said:

I can’t offer an opinion on the rules at the moment, but I will offer my sympathy due to the fact you have parents arguing calls during an intra-squad scrimmage

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It wasn’t that bad. But it doesn’t seem that the younger the kids, the less parents know the rules and the more they insist they’re right. In this case it was much more of just trying to understand the rules which I’m good with.

Comp said:

Your last question, was runner still on a base when ball hit them? If on a base runner is not out. If the ball hits anything other than another defensive player it cannot still be caught as a fly ball.

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Runner was not on base, hit between 1st and 2nd. So dead ball, nothing that could happen after matters. Thanks!

SiB57 said:

Runner was not on base, hit between 1st and 2nd. So dead ball, nothing that could happen after matters. Thanks!

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Eh, dead ball if you rule interference.

SiB57 said:

It wasn’t that bad. But it doesn’t seem that the younger the kids, the less parents know the rules and the more they insist they’re right. In this case it was much more of just trying to understand the rules which I’m good with.

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You'll see lots of strange things happen on the ballfield with the younger kids. The good news is that the higher up in age you get, the quieter the parents get. If you stick with it long enough, the kids will drive themselves to practice and the only parents around will be your assistants. Read the rule book and interpretations as many times as you need to so that you're comfortable with what they say, and don't allow ANYONE quote baseball rules to you ever again on a softball field.

Oh...if you don't already know, learn how to approach an umpire who has screwed up a call and properly present your question. Calls can sometimes change when there's two or more umpires on the field and the right question is asked. Also be ready to quickly quiet the parents if there's controversy...yelling from the stands helps nothing. I learned late in the game how this works...DD's HC is an expert at this.

Different rule sets may have slightly different standards ... but generally once a batted ball passes an infielder and no other infielder has a play on it, it is a live ball, play on. Doesn’t matter if the runner kicks it (unless the runner intentionally kicks it).
Ignore above ... I was wrong.

Where the differences in rule sets come in is when/how you determine the ball has passed an infielder. Do NOT use baseball rules in softball. Some baseball sets use “string theory” or “a straight line” between the two closest fielders whereas most softball codes look at the fielder(s) who could make a play.

@Comp is correct on your other oddity ... anything other than another defensive player is essentially considered “the ground” ... the ball remains live, but it is not a “fly out” if caught in the air.

The Man In Blue said:

Where the differences in rule sets come in is when/how you determine the ball has passed an infielder. Do NOT use baseball rules in softball. Some baseball sets use “string theory” or “a straight line” between the two closest fielders whereas most softball codes look at the fielder(s) who could make a play.

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Okay, great! Other than calling it dead instead of letting them play I had the reason for the girl being safe correct. Both infielders attempted to get to the ball, and could not and passed both of them, so in softball that's a passed ball, live play. And the parent might have been correct with the baseball rule, but I have two girls and no boys so I won't bother to understand baseball rules at that level

Strike2 said:

Oh...if you don't already know, learn how to approach an umpire who has screwed up a call and properly present your question.

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I never bother questioning plays unless I'm asking for my own clarification on what the rule is, not that the ump got it right or not. We'll get bad calls for us, we'll lose bad calls against us. It'll even out, I'm not worried about that. As long as the behind the plate umpire has a consistent strike zone (for my 10U daughter, who is also a pitcher) I'm good to go.

I did approach an ump once last year in a tournament to ask a question about a rule, after the inning, not complaining about the call itself. She (may be the only female umpire I've had so far) got very defensive immediately. Explained that I wasn't questioning the call, I was just asking so I know what the rule is, and she got it, explained the rule to me and we've become very friendly ever since. Look forward to when she calls games for us, which has happened a few times since then! I have a feeling she gets a lot more shirt and pressure because shes female, the male umpires wouldn't be pushed like that.

SiB57 said:

I never bother questioning plays unless I'm asking for my own clarification on what the rule is, not that the ump got it right or not. We'll get bad calls for us, we'll lose bad calls against us. It'll even out, I'm not worried about that. As long as the behind the plate umpire has a consistent strike zone (for my 10U daughter, who is also a pitcher) I'm good to go.

I did approach an ump once last year in a tournament to ask a question about a rule, after the inning, not complaining about the call itself. She (may be the only female umpire I've had so far) got very defensive immediately. Explained that I wasn't questioning the call, I was just asking so I know what the rule is, and she got it, explained the rule to me and we've become very friendly ever since. Look forward to when she calls games for us, which has happened a few times since then! I have a feeling she gets a lot more shirt and pressure because shes female, the male umpires wouldn't be pushed like that.

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It can and should be done in non-confrontational way. An experienced and competent umpire will not get bent out of shape about a reasonable question about the view of the play or rule application.

It's never about the judgement call...strike, ball, fair, foul, or did the ball beat the runner. It's about angle, view of the play, what could have been missed, and rule application. A common situation is when the Base Umpire is between 2B and 3B, there's a play at 1B, and 1B's foot pulls off the bag. The viewing angle and distance from the play may prevent the BU from seeing that, but the Plate Umpire can easily see it. However, that play is the BU's call, and the PU won't say anything unless specifically asked by the BU. By telling the BU what you saw, and asking him/her to check with their partner, the BU may "ask for help" and can choose to change the call based on the information the PU provides. I've seen it happen many times.