Can I get a travel ball history lesson?

Westwind · May 13, 2020

@pattar- absolutely right. And my dd’s did run track and played bb and vb for at least part of middle school. My comments are mostly from the point of view of a dude whose last dd is graduating hs this week.

There is also a big exception to my three sport athlete rant. It is the “1%er” type athlete that can play any sport she wants at the time. College coaches see a lot of these and I think they assume that the reason why they are good college athletes is they played three sports. It’s more like they were so athletic they could play anything they want and then pick up where they left off when the next sport starts. They are pretty rare. BUT... They have to have the gifts of athleticism AND the gift of a body that can hold up to the abuse. One of the most athletic kids I have ever seen in my life was a track star, a vb star, A bb star, could pitch a softball very competitively. It was like she could do anything and she was poetry in motion when you watched her play any sport. She made it to her sophomore year before her knee and right shoulder transformed her from a stand out student athlete into a stand out student. She wasn’t limited in what she could play. She couldn’t play at all. It was a shame.

I have always thought that she had one flaw: she could do anything and wanted to do everything. It’s too bad. If she would have focused on softball.... I think we would have been watching her on tv.

_MIA_ · May 13, 2020

Westwind said:
BUT... They have to have the gifts of athleticism AND the gift of a body that can hold up to the abuse.

This is a very good, and often overlooked, point. I could go on with (more) personal experience but it is sort of getting off topic so I won't

GunnerShotgun · May 13, 2020

Big Daddy Michigan said:
Is there some regulation of who can call themselves travel ball teams?

Could I just find 9 girls and call us a travel team, and challenge my neighbor to do the same?

Why does travel ball have to be the best of the best, players looking to play high level college softball? Very very few softball players go on to play at the collegiate level.

The more softball players playing travel is a good thing. Travel ball is filling a need in areas that rec league and high school softball are not fulfilling.

osagedr · May 13, 2020

Big Daddy Michigan said:
Travel ball has changed in definition a lot in the last twenty or so years. I respectfully ask how did we get here. Please read the whole post and understand that I mean no disrespect in the question, but if you only read half the post it may come off as disrespectful. That's not my intent. I'm trying to learn something. So please read with an open mind...

I was very active in softball. Then I went on a long hiatus. Then I had kids and got back in, and times had changed.

In my first go round travel teams were few and far between. The people playing were likely college players who had been sought out in some regard to join/try out.

Now everybody and their sister is on a travel ball team. I had a Dad question me about why I didn't ask his daughter to try out for the Little League All-Stars, because she was a travel ball player. She was the worst player on her Little League team, but had $800 worth of bats in her bag, and her dad was willing to write a check to any organization that would take her. She only lasted a season and then was forced to move on to the next sucker who'd take her dad's money, but someone always did. I live in a rural area and there at least 4 organizations drawing talent in a 30 mile radius. Most of the organizations have 2 teams at each age level.

So the fact that everyone is able to join a travel ball team, brings me to two conclusions:
A. There are a ton of rec leagues selling themselves as travel ball teams.
or
B. Travel ball teams have over expanded so far that anyone can create a team and everyone can play if the check cashes.

I realize this sounds insulting, and I don't mean it to. I know there are great organizations with elite players out there. They have great coaches and their players are going to D1 schools. I'm not trying to lump all teams together.

I want to know how we got here. I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm trying to learn, and since this board is full of softball junkies who can't get on a field, I'm hoping I can get a thoughtful history.

Is there some regulation of who can call themselves travel ball teams?

Could I just find 9 girls and call us a travel team, and challenge my neighbor to do the same?

How do "state" tournaments work? My friend's daughter played in multiple state tournaments. I assumed a state champion was supposed to determine who was the best team in your state (with different divisions of course.)

How do National tournaments work?

How did we get to so many governing bodies?

Thanks for taking the time to read this epic and for answering my questions.

"Travel Ball"

"Travel" - to leave one's home or local area.

"Ball" - softball (in this case)

What are we looking for, like, various national organizations to come up with certification procedures for who can use the term "travel ball"?

radness · May 13, 2020

Big Daddy Michigan said:
Yeah, part of the reason I've gotten more interested into the workings is because so many kids are involved locally which is great, but some of the coaches flat out lie to parents and players. One of the coaches told my friend that there would be at least 40 college scouts at their tournament. The tournament was in a little town in the middle of nowhere. There were no scouts going there and no one from any of the teams was getting scouted. It made me sad because he doesn't have the funds to live comfortably much less haul his family all over the state, but they convinced him she'll get a scholarship, so they do it. Her team's claim to fame is that two of their alums played at a community college.

Travel Ball really exploded in our area about 7 years ago and we are at the point where everyone is starting to see "the emperor isn't wearing any clothes." The scholarships aren't rolling in. A couple of girls "signed" at community colleges to play, but didn't play much and left after one season.

To your point of travel coach
mis-representing college coaches recruiting from their team.

Depending on the softball event college coaches attend because ~
A. The event itself.
B. The players on certain teams.
C. Sometimes long term coaches build good character and familiarity with college coaches too. This can be from a good run of players for a few years. And/ or ability to produce top players or similar players that fit the requirements of college coach.

*But some travel coaches can assume the college coaches are at the event watching the coach....
basically completely missing the bigger picture.

marriard · May 13, 2020

Long story short: Growth and Competition

Longer story:

'Travel Ball' was an 'olds boy club' at the top, and unless you were in the know, you didn't get to be part of it. That power has shifted - there are now multiple power groups that have moved with the will of the customer (PGF, USSSA for the most part); and some that haven't (ASA in particular).

Standard Compete: ASA was complacent (and remains that way); they had their baby (The USA Olympic Team) and used it. They are now getting run over by PGF, which is basically some of their disgruntled old boys members and some people p***ed off ebough to be willing to put a whole bunch of work in. You will hear the 'it was better in old day' crowd; this, of course, is garbage - it may have been better for them, but not for a wider swath of people. Players don't automatically have to switch to one of the 'old boys network' teams - they have options. USSSA may be on the B/C/Rec side of this equation (though USA Elite is really good); but it is an organized behemoth and they have eaten into rec and ASA and others with their weekend tournaments and opportunities. Even 10 years ago, the goal for the best teams was to qualify for ASA Nationals. That is a joke now - in Florida, teams would rather go play a PGF event than a qualifier.

Recruiting: And college ball is on TV A LOT, so more people are exposed, so want to be part of it. Also there are WAY more college teams than ever - growth in teams over the years has been extremely strong. These teams need players and a lot of them. This is the system that the coaches and NCAA put in and it is terrible and stupid, but that is what we have right now and people have adapted to it. The showcase scene evolved not just in terms of $$$, but also because coaches needed volume of players and you couldn't just show up at ASA Nationals - that wasn't going to cut it. This leads to...

Growth: This is now nationwide - it used to be Cali was 95% of it, and the few that weren't had to go there. Now it is across the nation. You don't have one power center where everything comes out of or everyone has to go to.

osagedr · May 13, 2020

GunnerShotgun said:
Why does travel ball have to be the best of the best, players looking to play high level college softball? Very very few softball players go on to play at the collegiate level.

The more softball players playing travel is a good thing. Travel ball is filling a need in areas that rec league and high school softball are not fulfilling.

This. More girls playing the sport they love is a good thing. And more girls getting opportunities to play against better players is a great thing. Many girls who might not have been "travel ball quality" at a younger age then get more serious about it can catch up with the 12U superstars who would be the only "travel ball quality" players if other kids didn't get the opportunity. I've seen a lot of 12U/14U superstars fade as other kids who were not pushed into the game as hard at a younger age overtook them.

radness · May 13, 2020

GunnerShotgun said:
Why does travel ball have to be the best of the best, players looking to play high level college softball? Very very few softball players go on to play at the collegiate level.

The more softball players playing travel is a good thing. Travel ball is filling a need in areas that rec league and high school softball are not fulfilling.

Good point!

This is a HUGE reason travel ball has grown!
A team for anyone!
Think its good more opportunity.
Used to be only top players.

It aslo created levels of play.
Which created more competition.
Created different reasons people play softball.

Now we have not only different levels.
Now we have different goals and reasons why people play.

As players continue in the sport starts defining why they play.
Adds the search for the right team fit.

FP26 · May 13, 2020

Very good thread with some interesting thoughts. Personally, I think the growth of travel ball is a good thing for the most part. My only wish is that there was a better way to classify the teams. DD started playing travel ball at 12u. At that time, our TB team was made up mostly of the local all-stars. Looking back on it, I would classify the team as low B. At local tournaments we were competitive. When we traveled farther outside the area, we typically got pounded. Our players worked hard each year and we gradually improved. The players received far more practice and game experience than any local rec league could provide. By the time we made it to 16u we were now competitive at any tournament we attended. We started avoiding the local tournaments because there were times we were afraid someone from the other team would get hurt. Our goal all along was to win between 60% and 75% of our games. If we won more than 75%, we needed to increase our difficulty level. At the end, I would say our team was a low A or high B level.

The added experience is really what made the difference for us. DD's high school team only had one travel ball player (her). Most of the other local high schools ranged from 3 to 6 travel ball players. Those that had 9 or more were the cream of the crop and untouchable for high school teams like DD's. When we played against most of the other local high schools, we knew all of the better players. They either played for our TB team or for another local team that we were familiar with. I'm sure this is much different in higher population regions.

Westwind · May 13, 2020

GunnerShotgun said:
Very very few softball players go on to play at the collegiate level.

I agree with everything in your post except this. And I may only be disagreeing because of small sample size. May be a local fluke.

I believe, according to my own unscientific observation, that more of our small town athletes have gone on to play softball in college than any other sport.

I asked our athletic directors to track how many hs athletes go on to play at least one year of college athletics by sport. One refused and said “wha ‘bout fuhball” and the other flipped me off because his mouth was too full of Cheetos to respond verbally.

Sorry I went all off topic there.

Can I get a travel ball history lesson?

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