Doing something about Old School cues- your comments needed

After my previous post and the excellent feedback, I started writing down some often used (and overheard) "Misconceptions that I used to have but have found to be either incorrect or misunderstood." The intent is to Create a document I can share with the other coaches in my program in an attempt to raise the bar of hitting instruction and get us all on the same page.
Ultimately, I think there will need to be images accompanying the text to illustrate the point.

My initial comments are below. There are more, but this is what I have so far.
I request and welcome comments, criticisms and corrections! (I know some of the wording is awkward)
Thank you

There is a difference between the baseball swing and the softball swing"- maybe in years past there was, but not anymore. Now the top coaches and hitting instructors refer to the 'Elite swing" or "high level swing" that applies to both sports. There is no difference between the swings of the top college Fastpitch players and top MLB players. the differences in swings is typically limited to pitch location. That and the bigger,stronger players (in both sports) can get away with less perfect mechanics.

"The baseball pitch starts high and finishes low. The Fastpitch pitch starts low and finishes higher".- wrong. The Fastpitch pitch starts lower but follows an arcing trajectory. Starts out on an upward path until gravity takes over and it starts dropping. That is why batters with a positive (or upward) attack angle of 5 to 20 degrees are hitting line drives. Over 20 degrees = fly ball. Negative (or downward) attack angle = ground ball or pop-up.
The human brain makes the adjustment for Gravity and the perception is that a fastball comes in flat when it is actually dropping. With the riseball, it follows an upward trajectory and then flattens out as it reaches the batter. When the ball doesn't drop as the brain expects, the perception is that it is breaking upward.

"Squish the bug"- this is a term that was used with young players who were first starting out that forces a movement that looks like what happens whe the weight is shifted correctly in the swing. The move has little to no effect on the transfer of power but is intended to introduce the batter to the concept of shifting the weight from the backside forward.

"Line up the door knocking knuckles"- some do, some don't. It's not an absolute, just a matter of personal preference. Albert Pujols does. Miguel Cabrera does not . The pros that do not start with those knuckles lined up, do have them lined up at contact with the hands in a palm up/palm down position. palm up/palm down at contact is the intention of this cue. whether you start that way or not. Cabrera (and others) align the knuckles at the base of the fingers on one hand with the door knocking knuckles of the other hand. The grip on the bat during the swing is loose enough so that the hands rotate slightly during the swing toward aligned door knocking knuckles. this is preferred by many while others (like Ralph Weekly) insist that keeping the knuckles aligned from start to contact enables a slightly faster swing.

"Pop flys are caused by an uppercut swing"-sometimes, yes, but usually its not the one symptom that causes the pop up. the one symptom is that they are caused by poor contact getting under the ball too much. "Uppercut Swing" implies that the attack path of the bat is very steep and a steep attack angle will usually result in a high fly ball- pop up in the IF or a can-of-corn to the OF. If a batter tees off at the incorrect angle (too much bend at the waist) this looks like an uppercut swing but there is more wrong than just the attack path of the bat.

"Hit the top half of the ball to impart backspin which creates line drives" - this is true in slow pitch and players like Mark McGwire think it works in baseball. When you are talking about a collision of a round ball moving at 60 mph with a round bat moving at 60+ mph in the opposite direction that takes place in 1/2000 of a second over a distance of 3/4" by a High school player, you will hit more into the ground than you will hit line drives-which are the result of solid contact. This isn't tennis. Line drives come from solid contact. That and the bats that are being used today.

"Knob to the ball"- is just one point along the path traveled by the bat in a good swing. It is partly about getting the hands and bat flat. It also means to POINT the knob at the ball thru part of the swing before contact ( this phase is called Bat Lag) and then release the club head into contact. You DON'T move the knob toward the ball. You do NOT pull or push the knob toward the ball.

Squish the bug is aimed at not shifting the weight correctly. It very much has an effect on power.

Not sure what you were going for on backspin. Did you mean the bottom half of the ball? Think you need to re-write this one. The Physics of Baseball is pretty strong on this account. Until Mark McGwire or anyone else wants to refute the assertions in that book, which attempt to describe reality based on physics, and it is peer reviewed, accepted and not ridiculed, I will believe that imparting X more RPMs of backspin on a ball will yield Y more feet of travel is a losing proposition after factoring in the attack angle. Tewks talks about tennis, a pro could never hit a tennis ball farther with a slice.

Thanks T, brain fart- it was supposed to be "swing down on the ball/hit the bottom half to impart backspin" good feedback, I know it was a lengthy post- thank you for helping me correct it. After reading your post I did a search and found I had asked a question about backspin a few years ago and there was a lot of response - both pro and con. Those who were in favor had no evidence other than how it felt and appeared to them. There was also a quote by Ted Williams that said something to the effect that if you are good enough to hit a ball perfectly with the backspin that will carry it, why don't you just hit the damn ball on the screws???!!!

It isn't that good hitters are attempting to hit the bottom portion of the ball to impart back spin, but that they are swinging through the ball.

On door-knocker knuckles, instead of some do/some don't, I think it's fair to say some do/most don't. Pujols does. I believe that Jessica Mendoza did. But I'd bet it's fewer than 10 percent of MLB players and less than 20 percent of NCAA softball players these days.

Palm up, palm down at contact? I have noticed that it depends on pitch location/height. Knob hand is often at a +/- 45 deg, not palm down at contact. The lower the pitch, the more towards vertical the knob hand is. In my opinion, palm up, palm down is a myth. The pitch has to be up in the zone. Another myth is to stride into a closed front foot. Very few do/most don't. This is based on my observations on photos and video. Hanson Principle: ''Always compare what anybody tells you (regardless of who it is) to slow motion video clips of the best players in the world''.

BLB said:

Palm up, palm down at contact? I have noticed that it depends on pitch location/height. Knob hand is often at a +/- 45 deg, not palm down at contact. The lower the pitch, the more towards vertical the knob hand is. In my opinion, palm up, palm down is a myth. The pitch has to be up in the zone. Another myth is to stride into a closed front foot. Very few do/most don't. This is based on my observations on photos and video. Hanson Principle: ''Always compare what anybody tells you (regardless of who it is) to slow motion video clips of the best players in the world''.

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Folks should realize some cues are ‘USER’ or feel based. The feel is from THEIR own body. These cues are not for viewer interpretation. The Hanson principle doesn’t play in this space.

how one feels, compared to what another perceives are two different worlds. In fact perception can create mis-truths, fantasies and misguided thoughts(last 10 years of internet hitting).

You can perceive, feel and sense. Some even try to calculate. I think that’s more useful than perception. LOL.

Work=wins said:

Folks should realize some cues are ‘USER’ or feel based. The feel is from THEIR own body. These cues are not for viewer interpretation. The Hanson principle doesn’t play in this space.

how one feels, compared to what another perceives are two different worlds. In fact perception can create mis-truths, fantasies and misguided thoughts(last 10 years of internet hitting).

You can perceive, feel and sense. Some even try to calculate. I think that’s more useful than perception. LOL.

Click to expand...

Unless the feel isn't real. I personally was struggling to create power in my swing. I thought I was extending my front leg into contact. It felt like I was, but I saw a video of my swing and realized I was standing into a firm front leg but the knee never extended into contact. I spent some time in front of a mirror learning the feel of knee extension.
Just one instance of feel not being real and using the real to teach the correct feel.
I've also coached players and taught them the feel of getting on plane early by having them view themselves in a mirror and also having them track their swing along a rope to learn the correct feel so the feel was the same as the real and not merely a mind game.

Bobby Shirer said:

Unless the feel isn't real. I personally was struggling to create power in my swing. I thought I was extending my front leg into contact. It felt like I was, but I saw a video of my swing and realized I was standing into a firm front leg but the knee never extended into contact. I spent some time in front of a mirror learning the feel of knee extension.
Just one instance of feel not being real and using the real to teach the correct feel.
I've also coached players and taught them the feel of getting on plane early by having them view themselves in a mirror and also having them track their swing along a rope to learn the correct feel so the feel was the same as the real and not merely a mind game.

Click to expand...

A mirror can help a player. It can help understand ‘what’ you need to feel. But my point was watching video and perceiving that a player is doing one thing while they tell you their ‘feel’ is another can be detrimental.

Squish the bug is about hips...getting the hips around. It’s something you tell young girls to use their body to swing.

line up the knuckles is about stopping girls from rolling over...of course most aren’t squeezing the bat so hard with the front hand that you have to do this, but it’s an easy way to make them stop rolling...palm up is the same thing. Stop rolling over at contact.

uppercut swing is bad in every way possible. It leads to strike outs, high fly balls, and topped grounders, but pop ups are created from hitting the bottom of the ball. Flattening the swing keeps the bat in the zone longer, but too flat causes the hands to drop and takes power away by leading to bat drag.

all of these tips/sayings aren’t bad or misconceptions, they are just usually for younger kids.