Pitching instructor won’t allow dd coach to attend lesson

Wow, that's quite a story. Personally, at clinics I have invited coaches, parents, grandparents, the kid's weekly pitching coach and anyone who has day to day access with the kid and their softball training to attend, ask questions, heckle me from the crowd, anything. If it really is an Intellectual property thing, I think that's really sad. Sad because Mr Tincher did not invent pitching. He invented NOTHING about pitching. Neither did his "certified coach". So how can someone claim IP on something they didn't create?? If I only had a nickle for every time I had someone "steal" something I've said or taught, I'd be Bill GATES not Hillhouse. Heck, many things on YouTube were never "authorized" by me to be up there, people just do it!!

I'd be curious where you guys are from. You mentioned a Metro area.

And not becoming dependent on the pitching coach? Is he serious? Why the hell do you think UCLA has a pitching coach on staff? Or any college program? Or any MLB program? Those pitching coaches interact with the pitchers DAILY!!!!!! If I was a cynic I'd say that almost sounds like a scam for more money: A $50 lesson turns into $75 when the coach plays hard to get and parents get desperate. I absolutely hope that's not the case.

I'm thinking I should seek out one of these instructors for my own pitching development since there seems to be a secret I've gone my whole career without knowing. Maybe I can enter the 50 over division with a whole new perspective on pitching.

Bill

I'm more concerned about keeping the back foot flat and not bending at the waist. Is the PI trying to encourage more of a lean (to get to that first "H" position), or is she expecting your daughter's head to stay stacked over her hips and feet the whole time?

And wouldn't keeping the back foot flat encourage a "plowing" effect, like an anchor? Or am I misunderstanding what "flat" means? (I'm picturing sideways to the catcher). Seems like it would prevent any IR of the rear leg, as well as make it difficult (if no impossible) to finish on the toe with the laces facing the catcher. But maybe this is more a cue to avoid the rear leg scissoring too much? (I have a feeling I've heard about this being used by other, possibly Tincher, instructors).

nikkilugi said:

One other detail to mention - when I originally ask the PI when we could schedule another lesson he said he doesn’t do weekly lessons because that makes DD too “dependent” on him. Well, I need her dependent on learning from someone and I ain’t the lady, lol. That’s another reason I want her TB coach to attend. He will be the guy to work with her the most other than me.

I like the PI. I like his personality and so does dd. He is fairly close to our house which is also nice in a large metro where I already drive too much to get to and from work. I really need dd to work with someone more often than every 3 weeks. Ugh

Click to expand...

I would look for a different pitching coach. I say this because the pitcher is supposed to look to the PC for answers.
A lesson once a week is very common and expected at any age IMO. Once every three weeks is not enough especially if your DD is unsure of herself and has questions.
I do understand the PC not wanting the HC present at lessons. The lesson should be a one on one session not two on one. I have no issues with the PC & HC communicating about what needs to be done outside of lessons.
It should be all about the student improving her skills and everybody needs to work together to get her there.
I think a phone call between coaches after a lesson would be the way to go if all parties are comfortable with that. I can’t think of a good reason why either coach wouldn’t be good with that.
I prefer a female pitching instructor. My DD won’t give a male instructor the time of day. There are many good male instructors out there but if given the choice I would go with female instructors.

As a PI I would think you would want the head coach on your team...the team that is trying to help this girl be the best pitcher she can be. That team is going to be the PI, you as the parent and the HC. I think the biggest thing I would emphasize as the head coach if he can talk to the PI is....I don't want to give your student any instructions on how to pitch I want to make sure we are on the same page about, what pitches she can throw and throw well, points of emphasis you are working on so I can reinforce them during practice any cues you have that might help her during game and how you feel she is progressing etc., I want to COMPLIMENT what you are teaching not undermine it.

I thik the biggest problem was it sounded like the coach was trying to correct things the PI was teaching which in my book is a no-no and maybe that's what instantly turned the PI off. Again maybe its just an initial conversation then follow up emails throughout the season but just to cut off all communication with the coach seems odd.

Gags said:

I'm more concerned about keeping the back foot flat and not bending at the waist. Is the PI trying to encourage more of a lean (to get to that first "H" position), or is she expecting your daughter's head to stay stacked over her hips and feet the whole time?

And wouldn't keeping the back foot flat encourage a "plowing" effect, like an anchor? Or am I misunderstanding what "flat" means? (I'm picturing sideways to the catcher). Seems like it would prevent any IR of the rear leg, as well as make it difficult (if no impossible) to finish on the toe with the laces facing the catcher. But maybe this is more a cue to avoid the rear leg scissoring too much? (I have a feeling I've heard about this being used by other, possibly Tincher, instructors).

Click to expand...

It is just a drill that Tincher instructors generally start out with. They want you to feel your core and glutes working. It is a drill with a full arm circle but it does not include the feet. It is also part of getting loose after throwing over hand.

Oh man I had the same sort of conflict last year with my DDs Head Coach and her hitting coach. When she joined his team (16u) she was a .600 hitter with a .800 slugging percentage. She was in the process of learning some new details to her swing. Head Coach hated it. Tried to change it and wasn’t very nice about it. It ended up being a train wreck. DD left the team batting like .168. She found a new team and is in the process of getting her confidence back. She gained the attention of a couple of D1 coaches before the train wreck. She will see that coach in a few weeks. I hope she does ok.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tell the head coach that it's your job to bring the pitcher and have her ready to game..
He should not interfere

MadBandit22 said:

I do understand the PC not wanting the HC present at lessons. The lesson should be a one on one session not two on one. I have no issues with the PC & HC communicating about what needs to be done outside of lessons.

I prefer a female pitching instructor. My DD won’t give a male instructor the time of day. There are many good male instructors out there but if given the choice I would go with female instructors.

Click to expand...

I do NOT understand. I welcome head coaches so they know what to look for, verbal cues and what to say when things go haywire. Personally I try to spend a lot of time educating the parents (and coaches if they attend) in addition to the student so everyone is on the same page and everyone knows what to look for and say when needed. Yes, if the HC or anyone is constantly interjecting with the lesson, trying to put his/her stamp on things, then I can see the issue. And this has happened before, where I just flip the ball to the coach or to Dad and ask them to show me since they are obviously better at this than I am. Please demonstrate for me so can learn from all your pitching experience. I have no problem discussing how or why I do a certain thing, but if you're going to argue with me... better be prepared to back it up.

RE: female pitching coach. I'm curious if this is because 90% of male pitching coaches weren't actually pitchers? Out of curiosity, has she been to a male who actually pitched fastpitch? I'm not arguing the "connection" factor... some girls connect better with female coaches. Others do not. I'm just curious if this preference is due to your DD not having confidence in someone who's never been in the circle before themselves.

Bill

BT3100 said:

Tell the head coach that it's your job to bring the pitcher and have her ready to game..
He should not interfere

Click to expand...

If I was the head coach Id have a problem with this mindset from a parent. His position as Head Coach is to have a pulse on the ENTIRE team, not just certain girls. I'm not saying he should micromanage whats going on, but at the end of the day, he is responsible for the entire teams development and success. I completely understand him wanting to be there to see whats being taught to one of HIS pitchers, because how else would he know how to ever help her? Imagine if you were a fly on the wall in a company meeting with the CEO, Head of Sales, and Head of Operations. The CEO decides to ask the Ops guy why he has the workers doing certain tasks and his response to the CEO is, "my job is to keep the factory running, you dont need to interfere". Im willing to bet that wouldnt go over very well and its the same principal as the softball situation.

From the way the OP mentioned, it seemed to me like he had questions as to why the PI was teaching that particular method and wanted clarity, that's all. Most coaches out there know there's more than one way to do something and if it helps add to the teams success, 99.9% of the time they are all for it. As mentioned by others previously, if the head coach is going to be working with her the most, you'd think it'd be common sense for him to be able to reinforce what is being taught to the pitcher.

With the way this PI barely wants to work with girls, and his attitude toward anyone else being there, it almost seems like he actually DOES want the girls dependent on him and he is just about dragging on any progression being made.

When I was a coach I did go to my pitchers’ lessons once for each pitcher just so I could understand the best way I could help them during a game when the PC wasn‘t there. Like Bill said, words or cues they used. Reinforcing what their PCs were teaching them during practices. Tried to educate myself on what did and did not work for them. Kind of surprised this is frowned upon. It helped me to call the best game for their particular strengths and weaknesses.