DD's opening front shoulder.

Bobby Shirer said:

Front leg is out of wack. She plants it in the dirt with toes facing the catcher, puts her weight on it, and then torques her body against it forcing it to rotate while planted. The knee joint isn't made for that. That rotation should happen in the hip prior to the foot plant. She pushes hard against that front leg creating a rearward offset thrust against her pelvis and that helps her take slack out of her core and generate a more powerful turn.
The knee isn't oriented in the plane of that thrust and so there's a torque applied to the knee joint.
Address the issue by externally rotating / opening the front leg before foot plant.

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Work=wins said:

Bobby,

When a player stays closed the way my kid does, she is using the rotation of her body to power her swing. It’s the way she generates force in a small window. Rotational velocity through rotational acceleration and deceleration.

I know you and a few others think you open up to rotate faster. But it’s actually the opposite. I will not get into it right now, but it will eventually be common knowledge and you can learn it.

Side note: she was hitting a change up, so there was a big adjustment there. But I know you just want to nit-pick anything you can for obvious reasons. Look at the videos of my kid I posted. The front foot opens. But anyway...

Go look at some HOFers. You will see the same thing. Some will roll over the ankle and stay closed. Some will open up the front foot at backside release like my kid. Some will stride open and the back leg will not rotate as much. They are channeling the force in ‘their’ proper direction(s). The ones they ‘use’.

It has something to do with the force vectors players use to generate speed. Every player is a bit different. That’s why hitting is tough to understand and teach. In a perfect scenario, you could teach vertical, horizontal and torque force to every player. But they all don’t move the same so you have to find out what their body wants to do and help them enhance that. Your ‘cookie cutter’ analysis will help some and hurt others. You need to understand what you are dealing with.

But so far you say ‘hold onto the bat and rotate’ ‘drop and drag’ the bat to contact. Either you haven’t seen good pitching or haven’t encountered good competition. Or maybe your descriptions just lack. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe post a video of some drills you like or a student you’re proud of. I’m not demanding or calling you out. I’m just tired of wasting time countering some of the weak points you keep making.

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Work=wins said:

Bobby,

There are proven pro instructors and pros that advocate the very same thing I do. You really should go explore what you can; the hands are very involved in the swing.

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Work=wins said:

Bobby,

There are proven pro instructors and pros that advocate the very same thing I do. You really should go explore what you can; the hands are very involved in the swing.

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james27503 said:

I think both of you Bobby and W=w to some extent will get players 95% of the way there in what you advocate. The last 5% is going to be the player themselves. The difference is not in what is being done by how it is being described.

ARod and JD completely contradict each other in what they present. However, their actual game swings are 95% compatible. To the point where ARod said earlier this year that Donaldson has the best swing in baseball. Even with guys like Trout out there. That is one heck of a compliment. Point is, I believe you can get to the same endpoint from a different point of view. We can think two totally different things and DO the same thing. A good coach should know all the philosophies. Should know that most of the high level teachers have good things to offer and that they get 95% there. They key is identifying which viewpoints resonate with your particular student.

For me personally the things JD was saying years ago were huge to me. I never understood the swing down at the ball because I have eyes and I didn't see anyone doing that. So to me, that makes the most sense. However, there are HOF's that swear they swing down at the ball, My minds say ok, you do swing down but down from behind like hitting a golf ball. But ARod will tell you no that is not it either, to chop down on the ball. TM even says he understands why they say that, tries to explain it, and it still doesn't make sense to me. I am a IT guy. I work on computers all day. Everything is logical. My brain fights feel, my brain wants this body part moves this way in this sequence period. There are many and probably the majority of players whose brains don't work like this.

Define the goal. Get to the goal any way you can. It will be different for different players. Politics, religion, batting, all can have witnesses see the same thing and have totally different takes. Star Wars actually had that figured out a while back. Haha. Luke said but you said, Vader killed my father. Obi Wan says he did, "from a certain point of view". Which to Obi Wan his friend\brother Anakin and Darth Vader had to be two different people. Anakin in his mind had to "die" for him to become Darth Vader. Point is, even if you disagree, try to understand their point of view. You may not agree in the end but it may give you a tool into helping someone else who thinks like the person you disagree with.

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pattar said:

The only difference between your DD and JD below (in terms of the current discussion) is that your DD does land with her foot pointing more towards the catcher (in that clip at least). More than anybody I can recall..not sure if that puts undo stress on the knee or not. For old farts like us it may..she is young though

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Work=wins said:

Pretty closed right?

Edit: I’ll take the rest as a compliment. Too late you can’t take it back.

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pattar said:

Get outta here with this..you are going to ruin all the fun...

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Work=wins said:

He’s laughing but he means this. He loves when we get going ! He will throw a few jabs during the contest as well. Since you referenced Stars Wars, Pattar has to be the little creature that’s always at Jabbas side laughing at Han Solo or whoever when they are about to die right?

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pattar said:

Dude, I sit at a desk all day grading HW/exams, looking at equations and writing code..you know how boring that get at times?

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