Bullet Spin and no movement

My daughter is a senior this year and will be playing for a mid major next year. This past year, her pitching has become not so good! She has been getting pounded and I mean pounded. I didn't know balls could be hit so far.

A little background: My daughter, from about 12U, has been a very good pitcher. Lots of power, lots of spin, tons of movement. We play top level A ball and see the best hitters in the country. She's been under the same Tincher Coach for 6 years. Over the past year, she started hitting 64 mph on the radar. Once she started pitching 62 regularly (about second year 16u), her pitches have tons of spin, but it is bullet spin and her balls don't seem to move any more. Without the movement, she is getting hammered. In turn, this has caused her to lose her confidence and the coaches confidence in her. It's been a domino effect because now she doesn't get the mound time in games and is brought in very little. She's dropped from the #1 pitcher to the #4.

Does anyone know if this happens naturally in IR pitching and is there anything I can work on to bring in a different axis rotation? Any help would be appreciated!!

the spin and the speed of the ball is fighting each other. If the speed wins the ball doesn’t break. If the spin wins the ball breaks.

if you catch her 3 feet further back, does the ball break? This is just a shot in the dark, something mechanical might be an issue. Good luck

A major problem that I see is that most pitchers don't know how to connect ball spin with specific hand/wrist/finger actions. Without some type of feedback there is no way to know how your attempts to spin the ball are working. I use a marker and put nickle size black spots all over the ball, this allows the pitcher to see the spin. Then I have them start experimenting, palm behind the ball (drop), palm facing out-fingers under the ball(rise?), palm up-fingers around the outside of ball (curve), palm facing in-fingers around the outside of ball (roll over drop curve). Most of them will find a natural way to spin the ball and that is what I start with. Often the smallest things will affect spin, a slight grip change, different finger pressure, a slight change in palm orientation. All this assumes that the pitcher understands how spin makes the ball move. What should curve, drop or rise spin look like? Make sure she knows what to look for.

@ArmWhip is spot on. I remember as a kid playing catch we would goof off all the time trying different grips and spins to see what the ball would do. I might be good for her to take some of the movement pitches that used to move and just start making adjustments. Rotate the grip slightly so maybe an extra finger is on the seams, play with finger pressure maybe harder or more or different fingers, etc.

One question though is this only side to side or can she not get the ball to drop either assuming she has a drop at this point, how is her changeup? and how is her control? did she change coach calling pitches or catcher? I ask all this more from a getting pounded in game perspective. If you can spot a fastball, throw a decent drop and have a good change up a smart battery (pitcher, catcher and coach) should be able to work around all but the really great hitting teams.

Is there another pitching coach in your area who you know of that teaches IR and has a good record of getting girls to pitch at the collegiate level? Maybe it’s time to get another set of eyes on her if she’s been with the same coach for that long. They might be able to pick up on something the other coach isn’t seeing. Sometimes it’s even a matter of just teaching a different grip for breaking pitches. What works for one pitcher might not work for another. Just a thought.

Dd’s one coach helped establish a great foundation with her mechanics and got her throwing with more velocity, but didn’t teach breaking pitches very well. The other coach she sees once in a while teaches her different grips and how to spin the ball better. They both teach similar mechanics, but one focuses more on her drive and FSR for power while the other works more on the finesse part of spinning the ball. Works well for her.

Sb based on what’s you said is that she throws bullet spin. Generally bullet spin doesn’t break. So you’re saying it used to break and now doesn’t?
I’m sure you know the traditional spin axis for balls to move. Up, down, left and right etc. I’m curious, why she throws bullet spin. ? Is she a 2 seam pitcher and uses finger pressure and vectors to love the ball? Or is bullet spin not normal. Not info would help. Thanks.


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DrRiello said:

Sb based on what’s you said is that she throws bullet spin. Generally bullet spin doesn’t break. So you’re saying it used to break and now doesn’t?
I’m sure you know the traditional spin axis for balls to move. Up, down, left and right etc. I’m curious, why she throws bullet spin. ? Is she a 2 seam pitcher and uses finger pressure and vectors to love the ball? Or is bullet spin not normal. Not info would help. Thanks.


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the bullet spin really started happening when she picked up speed. She used to move the ball really well (no bullet spin). Up, down, side to side. Since she has been whipping the ball and spinning it great (25+ rvs), no more movement.

sbdad03 said:

the bullet spin really started happening when she picked up speed. She used to move the ball really well (no bullet spin). Up, down, side to side. Since she has been whipping the ball and spinning it great (25+ rvs), no more movement.

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When you say started whipping what do you mean. ? What changed. ? Because if her arm circle changed or the way she “whips” the ball changed then the way she would create proper spin has to change. Clearly that is the problem. Speed without spin is a recipe for whiplash as a pitcher. Spin and spot at
Her level is key. She already has velocity. Lmk what changed in her delivery.


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sbdad03 said:

the bullet spin really started happening when she picked up speed. She used to move the ball really well (no bullet spin). Up, down, side to side. Since she has been whipping the ball and spinning it great (25+ rvs), no more movement.

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Maybe our definitions of "whipping" are very different but, by sheer nature of kinetics, this shouldn't be happening. If she's truly whipping (elbow, wrist then fingers) there's no way she can obtain bulletspin. TYPICALLY (not always) bullet spin happens because of a turn of the wrist at release which refutes a whipping motion.

DrRiello is absolutely right, bullet spin (even by it's definition) doesn't move. It stays flat. Any movement you get with bullet spin is called "force movement" not actual break on pitches. I don't really buy into the whole "change the grip" thing because this is a problem with her wrist turning, gripping the ball differently really isn't likely to change that.

The most troubling part of what you said is going to the same coach for 6 years yet the bullet spin thing was allowed to develop. It should've been stopped immediately!!! Unless... is the coach now teaching bullet spin? I know there are some out there who do (God only knows why) but they're there. Many times bullet spin happens when spending vast amounts of time on the rise. Dads/coaches can see a spin that looks different from the standard 6/12 spin and the ball going high makes them think they've done something right. But there's night and day difference between bullet and riseball spins.

Bill