After a walk continuing to second with ball in circle

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May 24, 2013
12,461
113
So Cal
My DD's team did this all the time, both on infield singles and on walks. They were usually playing showcase under USA/ASA rules. Her coaches were college coaches, so apparently they and they umps know why is wasn't a violation of the look back rule.

Maybe the coaches didn't educate themselves that there is a difference between and NCAA and USA/ASA on this. Under USA/ASA, it is definitely a violation of the LBR. The umps SHOULD know this.
 
May 29, 2015
3,731
113
Here’s the NCAA rule:

RULE 12 / BASE RUNNING
12.16 Look-Back Rule

12.16.1 The look-back rule is in effect when the ball is live, the batter-runner has touched first base and the pitcher has possession (for example, has the ball in her hand or glove, under her arm or chin, or between her legs) and control of the ball within the pitcher’s circle. The pitcher is considered to be in the pitcher’s circle when both her feet are within the circle or on the lines.

12.16.2 When a runner is legally off her base after a pitch or as a result of a batter completing her turn at bat and she is in motion as the pitcher takes possession of the ball within the pitcher’s circle, the runner may continue moving forward in the direction she is going without stopping; or she may immediately and directly go back in the other direction.
If the runner is stopped as the pitcher takes possession of the ball within the pitcher’s circle, the runner must immediately and directly go forward or back. A base on balls or a dropped third strike is treated as a base hit as long as the batter-runner continues past first base.

12.16.3 When the pitcher takes possession of the ball within the pitcher’s circle:
12.16.3.1 A runner standing off her base must immediately return to the base she last occupied or advance to the next base.
12.16.3.2 A runner who starts back to the base she last occupied or starts forward toward the next base shall not stop or reverse direction.
12.16.3.3 A runner may not step off any base after stopping at it.
12.16.3.4 The batter-runner, after overrunning first base, may not retouch the base and advance toward second base.
12.16.3.5 The batter-runner, after overrunning first base, must immediately return nonstop to first base or, if she does not retouch first base, must make an attempt to advance to second. If after passing the base, the batter-runner is heading back toward first base within the baseline extended, she may make a decision to go to either base. However, stepping beyond the extended baseline in foul territory commits her to first base while stepping beyond the baseline toward the second-base side commits her to second base.
12.16.3.6 The batter-runner may round first base, stop, and make an immediate decision to advance or return without again stopping or reversing direction.

12.16.4 Once the runner has determined a direction, she may not reverse direction unless the pitcher:
12.16.4.1 Throws the ball from within the pitcher’s circle.
12.16.4.2 Carries the ball outside the pitcher’s circle.
12.16.4.3 Has one foot completely outside the pitcher’s circle, on the
ground, while in possession of the ball.
12.16.4.4 Sets the ball on the ground or no longer has the ball in her possession and control (including handing it to another player).
12.16.4.5 Makes a play on the runner or another runner.
Note: When the pitcher’s circle is not visible, the umpire must use good judgment in determining if she would or would not be in the circle.

12.16.5 The pitcher is considered to have made a play if:
12.16.5.1 She fakes a throw.
Note: Raising the throwing arm into throwing position is considered a fake throw regardless of whether the pitcher’s arm moves forward.
12.16.5.2 She makes any aggressive body movement toward the runner (for example, steps toward the runner, head and body fakes toward the runner).

12.16.6 There is no obligation on the part of the pitcher to look, fake or throw in order to force the runner to comply with the look-back rule. The obligation to comply rests solely with the runner.

EFFECT—(12.16.1 to 12.16.6)—The ball is dead, the offending runner is out, and each other runner must return to the last base legally touched at the time of the infraction. If two runners are off base and both are called out, the umpires must determine which runner was called out first as it is not possible to obtain more than one out under the look-back rule. The ball is dead when the first runner is called out, and the other runner must return to the base last touched at the time of the infraction.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
My DD's team did this all the time, both on infield singles and on walks. They were usually playing showcase under USA/ASA rules. Her coaches were college coaches, so apparently they and they umps know why is wasn't a violation of the look back rule.
It is a violation of the lookback rule in every ruleset except NCAA.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Dec 18, 2016
163
28
Not sure what ruleset they were using (based on umpires’ uniforms it isn’t USSSA and likely isn’t USA unless they are wearing the old navy ASA jerseys) but that is an LBR violation all day long and twice on Sundays.

What rule set would you like the citation for? Here is the NFHS circa 2016. Applicable section in bold.

NFHS (2016)
Rule 8 Batter-Runner and Runner
SECTION 7 (F.P.) LOOK-BACK RULE
ART. 4 . . . Responsibilities of batter-runner after completing a turn at bat, and while the pitcher has the ball within the 16-foot pitching circle, including a base on balls or a dropped third strike are as follows:

a. A batter-runner who rounds first base toward second base may stop, but then must immediately, without stopping, return to first or attempt to advance to second base.
b. A batter-runner who overruns first base toward right field, turns left and immediately stops, must then return non-stop to first or attempt to advance to second base.
c. A batter-runner who overruns first base toward right field, turns left and moves directly toward second base and stops is committed to second and must attempt to advance non-stop to second base.
d. A batter-runner who overruns first base toward right field, turns left and moves back toward the infield in any direction except directly toward second base is committed to first and must return to first base.
e. A batter-runner who overruns first base toward right field, and turns right, is committed to first base and must return to first base.

PENALTY: (Arts. 2, 3, 4) The ball is dead. "No pitch" is declared when applicable, and the runner is out. If two runners or more are off their bases, when one is called out, the ball is dead and other runners are returned to the last base touched. Only one runner may be called out.

EXCEPTION: The runner will not be declared out if a play is made on another runner (a fake throw is considered a play), the pitcher no longer has possession of the ball within the 16-foot circle, or the pitcher releases the ball on a pitch to the batter.

It looks like NAFA based on the shirts the Blue's are wearing.
 
May 30, 2013
1,442
83
Binghamton, NY
Agreed that overrunning that far is more of an indication of the runner trying to set something like that play up though.

Yes, this video example is obviously a practiced "setup play".

The girl over-runs 1B, but it's not like she is hustling down the line to do so.
The "lazy over-run" and slow return to 1B is just providing a window to assess if a "delayed steal" is opportune, or not.
It's a deception-play to lull the defense into returning to their defensive positions, and to vacate the area around the 2B bag.
And yes - a lookback violation.
 
May 29, 2015
3,731
113
Yes, this video example is obviously a practiced "setup play".

The girl over-runs 1B, but it's not like she is hustling down the line to do so.
The "lazy over-run" and slow return to 1B is just providing a window to assess if a "delayed steal" is opportune, or not.
It's a deception-play to lull the defense into returning to their defensive positions, and to vacate the area around the 2B bag.
And yes - a lookback violation.

Watched the video again, having read the NCAA rule. I’m going to guess this was at least a college coach that was using that rule set in his/her mind. Note that the runner makes an effort to stay in fair territory, but as close to the line as she can the whole time.

As Comp has said a few times, that is legal in NCAA and I would say this is a textbook video for that.
 
Jun 4, 2014
159
28
Watched the video again, having read the NCAA rule. I’m going to guess this was at least a college coach that was using that rule set in his/her mind. Note that the runner makes an effort to stay in fair territory, but as close to the line as she can the whole time.

As Comp has said a few times, that is legal in NCAA and I would say this is a textbook video for that.

Most college camps my oldest goes to covers doing this on a close play at 1b. I'm guessing the batter and/or coach recently attended a college camp where they did this and implemented it without realizing the difference in the rule sets.
 

Tex

Sep 13, 2011
46
8
NFHS: 8-7-4 (Look Back Rule) (D Is the answer) (Runner is out)
a. A batter-runner who rounds first base toward second base may stop, but then must immediately, without stopping, return to first or attempt to advance to second base.
b. A batter-runner who overruns first base toward right field, turns left and immediately stops, must then return non-stop to first or attempt to advance to second base.
c. A batter-runner who overruns first base toward right field, turns left and moves directly toward second base and stops is committed to second and must attempt to advance non-stop to second base.
d. A batter-runner who overruns first base toward right field, turns left and moves back toward the infield in any direction except directly toward second base is committed to first and must return to first base.
e. A batter-runner who overruns first base toward right field, and turns right, is committed to first base and must return to first base.
 

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