Turning the barrel and launch position

Shawn said:

FP26

It's excellent for TTB, not so much for just snapping the barrel rearward. The swing happens more like Mankin describes.

Mankin talks about how the top hand circles around. Hand rotational point (my view) and changing the direction of the knob (my view). Sets up the oar lock effect.

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I don't separate TTB and 'snapping the barrel rearward' as you put it as different things. I don't have an agenda, just concepts that resonate with what I feel myself and what works when I teach. I feel the hands slotting the elbow and the start of rotation moving them forward in space (while stretch and load keep them near the rear shoulder. Actively work the handle and the barrel must turn rearward in order to work behind the ball, for hips to beat hands and max separation and stretch to naturally occur. Those are concepts that would seem to be fairly universal. I don't believe every conversation has to be a vs b, you end up only having a vs b conversations then. Take that away and I don't imagine we'd be far apart in how the barrel works? Maybe? Maybe not?

Shawn said:

How about this swing? I no longer believe in the slo-motion myth that it's not what is happening. When in fact it's the truth and it blows some peoples belief system out the window. The truth is hard to take for some people who have a stake in creating their own belief system.

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It's awesome when the thread derails into a 'blowing some people's belief system out the window' pissing contest instead of simply talking about hitting.

Shawn said:

How much TTB is there before the back elbow slots and the oar lock effect starts? I see very little movement of the barrel.

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Not saying you are wrong or right, but keep in mind this is a HR derby swing where the pitcher is throwing what, 75 mph? You have a game clip?

ian said:

It's awesome when the thread derails into a 'blowing some people's belief system out the window' pissing contest instead of simply talking about hitting.

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Awesome is an interesting choice of words. My word would be comical...

I just don’t see the barrel turning as a result of some “thought” or “trained” specific movement. It’s the result of so many things occurring properly prior to swing launch. When the body works in proper sequence the barrel will turn

ian said:

It's awesome when the thread derails into a 'blowing some people's belief system out the window' pissing contest instead of simply talking about hitting.

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geeze. and here I was thinking this thread was better than most. lol!

As good as his swing is, there is quite a bit of slop in his TTB action (at least in this swing)(of course HRs can be hit with less than ideal swings). This is almost 2:1 elbow to bat head action. Just thinking theoretically, optimally this should be a 1:1 move with the elbow and bat head moving in unison. It would be a goal to work toward.

[the above measurements are not exact, because of varying angles/arcs/height etc. and the clip ends a little early, but are representative for this purpose]

efastball said:

Just thinking theoretically, optimally this should be a 1:1 move with the elbow and bat head moving in unison. It would be a goal to work toward.

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I think some earlier in the thread were talking about how the bat head doesn't really accelerate until elbow slots? is that correct?
(hence the "drift" discussion...)

so I suppose that is a difference in philosophy and "teach" mechanics?
(still learning)

If I slot the back elbow and work the front elbow above the ball at the same time from a leveraged position, the barrel turns, the triangle rotates. I don't have to think about TTB with the hands at all. That's not saying I think the hands are dead

Cornbread said:

I just don’t see the barrel turning as a result of some “thought” or “trained” specific movement. It’s the result of so many things occurring properly prior to swing launch. When the body works in proper sequence the barrel will turn

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Fair enough. I don't see hand action as a 'result' of something else, I see it as a primary trigger. I also think you have to teach it. A tight hand pivot point just isn't obvious to many young hitters who think and then execute a 'swing' as something that's executed with 'your arms' (I mean just look at it, right?) with what ends up too often as an elbow pivot point (see eFastball bat drag takes). I think teaching proper hand action on top of a properly sequenced platform is how you move a hitter away from things like a push swing and DBSF...