Is H.S. ball worth the time?

vicimus said:

Well, my *pre-judgement* was that HS ball (at least in our area) is a colossal waste of time if your end-goal is D-1 recruitment. My specific question was, "To what extent to div I coaches look at H.S. accomplishments in areas where H.S. ball is a joke?"

FWIW, I was actually looking for any *facts* or opinions to the contrary, but that was not the case. The only opinions to the contrary were based upon *school pride*, fluffy accolades, camaraderie, etc. which is fine, but not really relevant to recruiting.

So, call it insincere, but from my perspective, it was a *sanity* check.

No apology necessary.

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I take offense at the "fluffy accolades" comment since that is what you stated after I posted about my dd. If you think All-State 1st Team if "fluffy" when we only had 2 classes at that time, you are mistaken. If you think that 1st Team All Area for 4 straight years in an area comprised of 3.3 million people is "fluffy" then you are mistaken. While my dd never played for accolades, she busted her rear more than any player I've coached in 31 years of coaching. She is THE toughest player I have ever coached. She doesn't deserve to have someone pass judgement on her achievements and call them "fluffy."

DD's high school season, and therefore career are now over. All that is left is the sport's banquet. So once it came to an end I asked her if it was all worth it. Here is some history.

Freshman -- she was the only freshman starting on a team that included 8 travel ball players. She started in right field and did get a few opportunities in the circle. The team qualified for districts. In all, it was a successful season with the exception of some player and parent created drama. Not over the top, but there was some.
Sophomore -- she started the year as the #2 pitcher behind the senior #1. Within 8 games she proved to be more consistent in the circle and took over for the rest of the year. 3 of the travel ball players graduated, so we were down to 5 with any real experience. Personally DD had an outstanding season. But the drama that began her freshman year continued and seemed to multiply. By the end of her sophomore year, she had questions about returning for her junior year.
Junior -- her desire to walk away lasted approximately 2 weeks. Then she decided she would continue. It was down to her and one other travel ball player. The rest of the team was very young, and VERY inexperienced. To make matters worse, DD developed shoulder issues and missed nearly half of the season. The level of drama was more than I had ever seen with any other program ever. By the end of the year, DD was absolutely positive she would not play high school ball again.
Senior -- this time she seemed content about not playing, but once the travel ball season ended in September, she started talking about softball and how she didn't want to miss her senior year. We talked about all the drama and she agreed, but kept saying "it's my senior year". This year she was the only travel ball player on the team, and it showed on the field. The drama wasn't quite as bad this year, but was still there.

So after all of this, DD has no regrets about playing. She does say that if she knew then what she knows now, she may not have ever started high school softball to begin with. But once she got involved, it was inevitable that she would play all four years. She felt that she owed it to the coaches and the other players to continue. She didn't want to let them down. Overall, even though there were a ton of negatives, she is considering it a rewarding experience. As a parent, it was painful to watch sometimes, but I am very proud of how she handled herself throughout all of it. It was a learning experience both on and off the field. I apologize for the long post, but you are right when you say that each person's experience is different. There were several points throughout this process that I was hoping quietly that she would walk away from high school ball and just stick with travel ball. But at the end of the day, I am glad she stuck with it. The lessons she learned by doing so, will be valuable the rest of her life.

vicimus said:

Well, my *pre-judgement* was that HS ball (at least in our area) is a colossal waste of time if your end-goal is D-1 recruitment. My specific question was, "To what extent to div I coaches look at H.S. accomplishments in areas where H.S. ball is a joke?"

FWIW, I was actually looking for any *facts* or opinions to the contrary, but that was not the case. The only opinions to the contrary were based upon *school pride*, fluffy accolades, camaraderie, etc. which is fine, but not really relevant to recruiting.

So, call it insincere, but from my perspective, it was a *sanity* check.

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So to your specific questions:
College coaches at all levels don't care about high school achievements UNLESS they are at the highest level in the state. i.e. several prospective coaches watched my DD play in our district and state finals this season because it was streamed and they could. My DD's team is not without drama - but the team is full of very, very talented travel players. I am sorry your HS softball sucks.

However you got a lot of advice and answers to questions you SHOULD be asking - which you are just willfully ignoring from people who have been there multiple times with their DD's, their teams and lots of players. We see red flags because we see this all the time - your obsession with D1 is disturbing, your thought that D1 or even a scholarship is the end-goal is not a good way of thinking about it, your reliance on a coach to get your through a plan, your comments on how it has been presented to you... I know it is very familiar to me and I suspect it is for others as well. And your dismissal of others achievements at great and even not great high school programs is unfair and insulting to those who have had the fortune and opportunity to achieve.

A lot of college sports is sold on "*school pride*, fluffy accolades, camaraderie, etc" and it is in many ways closer to a high school team environment than travel. As a player you have to be prepared for that or you will get chewed up and spat out. The college coach may not care about your DD's high school experience, but there are still things your DD could possibly learn even in a poor environment. It isn't just skills and talent that makes a player in college but also the personality and ability to handle situations you cannot avoid.

There is good advice in this thread and others like it. I hope you take it and opens your mind a little about what the real goal of playing sports is. I hope your DD is awesome and reaches all her goals. It is worth stepping back and assessing objectively some of the red flags people have raised and keeping your eyes open as your DD's journey moves along.

For whatever it’s worth, in some ways college softball is a lot more like high school softball than travel ball. I think that people expect it will be Tavel Ball+ and then are not prepared for what happens next. Experiences will vary, just like they do in high school. That’s all I’m going to say about that.

Not everyone will agree with this of course.

Westwind said:

For whatever it’s worth, in some ways college softball is a lot more like high school softball than travel ball. I think that people expect it will be Tavel Ball+ and then are not prepared for what happens next. Experiences will vary, just like they do in high school. That’s all I’m going to say about that.

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Amen to this... Some of the stories our girls have brought back from some schools have made HS and Travel look calm and peaceful.

We have a girl transferring this summer to a new school because the coaches changed her classes without consulting with her. Apparently that was standard practice at this particular school.
A local college coach managed to get himself suspended a month... not for the first time. We have been advising our girls to avoid this school since he was hired.
One of our ex-pitchers is transferring because the coach ONLY calls outside drop balls. I watched a couple of games online and she is not lying - a long steady diet of outside drop balls.


Some programs the pressure to win is massive - at others no one cares which is even worse. And so on....

Weeeeeeeeee....

While HS ball won’t be the deciding factor in a kid getting recruited, the reasons for not playing might. Players or parents who think HS ball is beneath them or view it as “what can I get out of it “ as opposed to “what can I contribute to it” will likely do the same in college. Talented players are a dime a dozen so you don’t want to do anything to remove you from a coaches list. If there’s good reasons a kid didn’t play HS ball it won’t be a negative. Playing HS ball will almost certainly be viewed positively though so why not? There is absolutely nothing a kid will miss in the weeks away from their travel teams that will impact their D1 opportunities. The showcase season hasn’t started so they won’t miss recruiting. Most of the top club teams are shut down so they’re not missing stronger competition.

Most recruiting does take place during the travel season. Most, but not all. I’ve seen several D1 schools at HS games. It’s not often and it’s obviously nothing like showcases, but you do see them. If the goal is to get in front of coaches why not put yourself in a position to play in front of as many as possible? Another thing I thought I posted earlier, but maybe not. The softball world is relatively small. If a kid shines on her HS team there’s somebody who knows somebody who knows a good D1 college coach. It would be foolhardy to rely on just that, but it is one of a long string of things a kid can do to get recruited.

A HS coach probably won’t get you recruited to a D1. Then again, a TB coach probably won’t either. I don’t care how many kids a coach claims they got into D1, it’s far more likely the player and family were the driving force and it happened in spite of the TB coach and not because of him. I often hear the claim of how incompetent HS coaches are. IME as a whole they’re a lot more qualified than the typical TB coach. I don’t even know how many so-called TB teams we have here. I do know there’s a lot more run by complete clowns than there are qualified coaches.

It's absolutely correct that the quality of pitching and hitting isn’t the same level as TB. The “pitching is too slow and they can’t adjust” or “the hitting is so bad she’s not challenged”. If a batter can’t adjust to different speeds and a pitcher can’t challenge herself to hit spots regardless who the opponent is they’re not D1 caliber.

There are some stats that D1 coaches care very much about. Even in a lower HS division I’d assume at some point they’ll face a team with a stud pitcher or hitter. How a kid performs against those players is important. DD was often asked how she did against specific HS teams or players. If that’s the case in a softball hotbed like Minnesota I’d have to think they’d care in other places.

Politics, favoritism and poor coaching don’t disappear when you get to college. HS ball gives kids a chance to show off their leadership, or lack thereof in many cases. If a parent/kid thinks they’re above HS ball, then chances are D1 is well above them. Sounds like you have a very talented kid. Don’t wreck it for her.

I used D1 interchangeably with any high level softball. As we all know D1 doesn’t always mean great and DII or lower doesn’t always mean bad.

Westwind said:

For whatever it’s worth, in some ways college softball is a lot more like high school softball than travel ball. I think that people expect it will be Tavel Ball+ and then are not prepared for what happens next. Experiences will vary, just like they do in high school. That’s all I’m going to say about that.

Not everyone will agree with this of course.

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Very true!! I work with several players that are currently playing in college. Some love it. Some, not so much... Wide range of experiences.

Westwind said:

For whatever it’s worth, in some ways college softball is a lot more like high school softball than travel ball. I think that people expect it will be Tavel Ball+ and then are not prepared for what happens next. Experiences will vary, just like they do in high school. That’s all I’m going to say about that.

Not everyone will agree with this of course.

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Ah come on man....

I will definitely agree with your vague statement of the similarity between HS ball and college ball...
No, seriously..I definately agree...

. For whatever it’s worth, in some ways college softball is a lot more like high school softball than travel ball. I think that people expect it will be Tavel Ball+ and then are not prepared for what happens next. Experiences will vary, just like they do in high school.

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True. But I expect a big difference from our HS program is that no matter what you experience on a college team, i imagine everyone on that team has picked softball as their #1 sport, if they dont just plain love the game outright. A big thing DD learned from this HS team is the importance of “team” .

As far as drama goes, you dont have to look any further than the Fagan-Walton feud to see it can happen at all levels.

obbay said:

True. But I expect a big difference from our HS program is that no matter what you experience on a college team, i imagine everyone on that team has picked softball as their #1 sport, if they dont just plain love the game outright. .

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You are right... you are imagining this.

There are still players who are doing it because their parents made them, or are relying on the scholarship money, or play the game because they are good at it or talented, or like the attention success brought them, or like the challenge, or are just stuck in a pattern, or are using it to get access to a college program or... the reasons are endless.

Actual love of the game or simple choice is surprisingly low on the list.