Is H.S. ball worth the time?

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Jan 31, 2015
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Well, *suffering* is relative, but let's just say this was the first year she didn't get straight A's, but she's well above the 3.5 GPA range that I've been told is the threshold for student athletes.

That said, she also played both club and MS/HS field hockey for the last 6 years too, but this year we made her choose one to focus on for div I development.

So, now she's focused on softball, but every hour spent on HS ball could be an hour on club ball and/or grades.

Her college target list is long, so she's got a wide variety of options per her club coach's recommendation.

Thanks for the feedback.

What struck me about this was that his DD's grades were suffering by trying to do both. That is not acceptable if she is trying to get into a good school.

Think of getting her ready for college ball as a three-legged stool: grades, test scores (ACT and/or SAT) and her club play. She has to be up to par in all three.

HS softball is nice to have, if it doesn't interfere with the other three.
 
Jan 31, 2015
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Actually, she's in a private school conference, but I'd rather have the choice than not.

Grades always come first, but my major concern is that she's got a lot of work to do with her club coach to get her div I ready, and every hour spent on HS ball is an hour that could be used for developing those div I skills. Her club coach actually mentioned that he may prohibit his club players from even playing HS ball until their junior year, given the new recruiting rules, and the practice of many HS coaches not giving the freshman and sophomores much playing time. We shall see, since his daughter will be a freshman next year. ;-)

The HS accolades is a *nice to have*, but I really question whether it's *any* factor at all when it comes to recruiting.

Thanks for the feedback!

It's unfortunate that you live in a state that allows girls to participate on a HS and non-HS team in the same sport at the same time. Can't do that in IL. Trying to do both while still being able to focus on what is ultimately MOST important - grades - is tough.

But to your question, and has been stated, college coaches don't care about HS so much. In most areas, the HS and college seasons are at the same time, so there is little to no opportunity for college coaches to come watch HS games while worrying about their own season.

Some college coaches never mention HS, others may want to know why a girl is not playing HS, others may say "keep me updated as to how you're doing", etc.

I also find it odd that for something that ultimately means little to nothing for recruiting, every college player's roster bio is filled with HS accolades (many of which are highly exaggerated or outright fabricated...but that's another thread).
 
Jan 31, 2015
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Roger that.

DD plans to be a computer science major which is the #1 college target criteria along with mid-major div I softball. Thankfully, our state college is top 15 in computer science programs, and lower 100's in div I softball. ;-)

Now, whether or not a computer science major has time for div I softball is a topic for another thread. ;-)

Again, TB coach allows HS ball, but since she's his #1 pitcher, he isn't happy when there's workout conflicts; thankfully, her HS team lost in the semi-finals, or she would have missed all last weekend's pool games, even though the whole tournament was rained out anyway. ;-)

Thanks for the feedback and your personal experiences!

Again, since she's playing 14U with him, since #1 he's the one personally developing her (just joined him in the fall), #2 he needs her to pitch on his 1st year 14U team, and #3 she just turned 14 in January since she started school a year early; that said, he did let her pitch with the 16U/18U team in the fall.

I can tell you one thing every coach is very interested in- GRADES!!

What does your DD want to do after college? Playing for a DI school in college doesn't guarantee a happy life. Someone told me (and ive heard it several times since) that your DD should choose a school that she would want to go to even if she couldnt play ball there.

I’m always the first one to compain about HS and say HS doesnt matter, so believe me when i say “it all depends”.....

HS ball can be an excellent experience, team bonding, representing your School/town on the field, going deep into the playoffs, being recognized for your hard work with awards, all-star /all-conference nomnations, newspaper articles, etc. it can be fun and that is what its all about.

As far as colleges go, i have heard a number of DI coaches say that whether you play ball in HS or not doesnt affect whether or not you’ll be recruited. And that its not uncommon. The DII and DIII seasons end in time for those coaches to attend HS games, but except for here at DFP, ive never heard of it happening. I do hear about it and see it at pretty much EVERY TB tournament.

If you want to play HS ball, the TB coach should allow you to be with the HS team until that season is over. Thats why U16 + U18 usually go dark untill HS season is over. (Im surprised shes not playing up on U16 or 18)

Our College recruiting experience:
My DDs (both) loved softball, had bad HS experiences but excellent TB experience.
DD1 walked on in college (DIII) and DD2 chose a college that doesnt recruit and hopes to walk on in the fall.

When DD2 was a HS freshman, she realized she wasnt going to wind up being recruited by Alabama, so she started thinking about what colleges had to offer besides softball and that led her to gravitate more toward DIII schools. In the fall of her Junior year, she had selected (5) schools she wanted to pursue, a DI, a DII and (3) DIII’s. In the end it was between the DII and a DIII but the DII was always her favorite and thats what she chose, even though the coach had been unresponsive to her correspondence over the course of the year. She met the coach this past january and they have maintained infrequent communication since then. (Both have been very busy)

More than you asked, i just wanted you to see how it worked out for someone else who is at the end of our recruiting adventure between HS and college, and it didnt go according to plan or “like everyone else”. She always thought she would be recruited and know she would be joining a college team in the fall, but shes still working on it and excited to be going to her first choice school even though softball is not guaranteed, but it is likely.
 
Jan 31, 2015
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This is exactly the mindset of myself, DD's mother, and her club coach; however, I can tell DD wants to play HS ball for the sake of *school pride*, etc. which none of us care about. ;-)

Thanks for your feedback!

Is HS Ball worth it? If you have to ask this question, then no it is not. Besides, why put of with the misery of all of those HS Coaches who don't know a thing about the game. Have her go play TB where all of those coaches are well versed and can get your child a college scholarship.
 
Jan 31, 2015
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Well, since she's been playing both club level softball and field hockey for 6+ years in addition to MS level (same school) softball, field hockey, and basketball for the last 3 years, she's pretty much learned 1-10 below.

However, now the prime objective is to focus on working into developing div I softball caliber player while maximizing the GPA and SAT/ACT test scores. ;-)

Thanks for your feedback though.

HS ball can sometimes teach travel players and families that:
1. You don't get to choose your position on the field or in the lineup
2. what it's like to contribute to a team where/when you are asked to
3. what its like to earn your spot
4. softball coaching isn't always "fair"
5. how to excel despite poor coaching
6. what it's like to not be in control of your situation
7. how to balance academics with sports activities
8. what its like not to be coached by a parent or friend
9. how to manage a less than ideal experience when you cant just simply switch to a new team
10. what its like to play for school pride vs. individual recruitment

(I'm sure there are lots of other reasons to play HS ball, but these were the first 10 that came to mind...)
 
Jan 31, 2015
249
43
Yeah, my concern isn't that it will hurt her recruiting, but that it will not help, and it's a lot of time (at least 10 hours of practices per week) that could be better spent with her club coach and studying.

I believe the main reason she wants to play is school pride and hopefully some accolades, but I'm just not sure that's worth her time, which is what prompted this thread. She got her first taste of accolades last week via a reporter from her conference web site, so it's all on-line and social media based accolades which is what the girls care about anyway, since none of them read a newspaper. ;-)

DD isn't the only one on her HS team that also is on a TB team, but she's on the only *serious* TB team who's objective is div I development. Again, DD HS team is in the B conference; there's a few teams in the A conference which care about recruiting, but this is DD HS team's first winning season in 6 years, so it will be a challenge to move up to that A conference before she graduates. ;-)

As far as DD HS coach, she's the antithesis of DD TB coach. She actually told my daughter and another girl (3rd & 4th line up) that, "They don't have to hit HRs *every* at bat!" It took everything in me not to yank her off that team after I heard that! SMH She's also of the *loser* mentality that upperclassmen should get more mound and playing time, until it become quickly apparently, that DD was the best pitcher on the team despite being a freshman, so she pitched every inning of the last game of the season and both playoff games after giving her the ball and telling DD to prove to her that she's the best pitcher on the team, which she had already proven to everyone else a lot earlier in the season.

Thanks for your feedback!

In my opinion it depends on the reasons she is interested in high school ball in the first place.

* Recruiting -- While there are some larger high schools with very solid teams that may be able to help in this regard, most softball players are not recruited from their high school softball teams. I think it is unlikely that high school ball will hurt her chances, but it may also not help her chances.
* Accolades -- As someone else mentioned, you have all the Team MVP, Team Captain, District All Star Team, Area All Star Team, etc., etc. Most of these things are posted in the newspaper for all to see. You will rarely see travel ball stuff in a local newspaper. We won the State Championship with our travel team and had a team picture posted in the paper. But if we didn't send them the picture, they would have never known about it. Personally, I don't read the local paper and have never cared about the various accolades. But DD seems to enjoy that stuff...

DD is in an interesting position. There are 17 girls on her high school team, but she is the only one that plays travel ball. Honestly, she is the only one that even touches a glove or bat between June and December. The rest of the team is too involved in cheer, soccer, or field hockey. Prior to the season we had a long talk about high school ball. She is a senior and is planning to play in college next year. This season means nothing as far as that goes. It's a lot of work and a lot of frustration with very little or no benefit. But it is something she wanted to do. She likes the other girls on the team and has accepted a leadership role, helping them to become better players. She sees it as a way of giving back to the sport. So while the games are very frustrating to watch (actually painful to watch sometimes), I am proud of her for doing something she wants to do, regardless of the outcome.

Coaching --- I hear what you are saying in regards to coaching. DD's coaches are nice people and they mean well, but they have their hands full with this group. There is only so much they can do. I coach a travel team and my assistant played D1 baseball. Him and I handle most of the training with our entire group including both of our DD's. Sometimes they will pick up some valuable information from one of the high school coaches, but we pretty much take care of the rest. I know some people get concerned because the high school coach may change DD's swing or pitching, etc. We have never had any of those issues.
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,312
113
Florida
Yeah, my concern isn't that it will hurt her recruiting, but that it will not help, and it's a lot of time (at least 10 hours of practices per week) that could be better spent with her club coach and studying.

I believe the main reason she wants to play is school pride and hopefully some accolades, but I'm just not sure that's worth her time, which is what prompted this thread. She got her first taste of accolades last week via a reporter from her conference web site, so it's all on-line and social media based accolades which is what the girls care about anyway, since none of them read a newspaper. ;-)

DD isn't the only one on her HS team that also is on a TB team, but she's on the only *serious* TB team who's objective is div I development. Again, DD HS team is in the B conference; there's a few teams in the A conference which care about recruiting, but this is DD HS team's first winning season in 6 years, so it will be a challenge to move up to that A conference before she graduates. ;-)

I wasn't going to comment on this but I am going to... I have heard you talk a lot about your thoughts and feelings and so on.

What does SHE want to do???

That is really what matters.

Not you or your development goals for her or your opinions of the HS coach and so on. Frankly playing a few months of HS ball isn't going to hurt her long term or kill her development or stop her getting recruited or better or anything like that. If she wants to play HS, then she should. Yes it is a massive time suck but you can save time by cutting out all the club activities and tournaments and others for a little bit as well - I would recommend that anyway - HS + a full travel training/tournament schedule is WAY too much.

The game HAS to be hers. One thing many players learn in HS is how to handle the situations they face all by themselves.

Note: It is a little different in our area - 16U/18U ball basically goes dark during HS here anyway, so if my DD didn't want to play HS ball she would probably go play something else for a season anyway. What older ball there is during that time is worse than HS.
 
Jan 31, 2015
249
43
The problem is that if it were up to DD, she'd still be playing club softball plus club field hockey (indoor and outdoor) year round plus HS softball plus HS field hockey.

HER goal (with our full support) is to play a div I sport, so this year we made her choose either softball or field hockey, since there's very little chance one can compete for a div I roster spot with girls who play year-round in either sport (life lesson).

The other major life lesson is that there's only so many hours in a day/week/year, so you have to prioritize, since HS ball competes with club ball both of which competes with grades. Since there's ZERO chance her HS coach will get her on a div I roster, but her club softball coach has probably developed more div I players in the area than any other coach (incl. free ride for freshman this year to DD #1 school), logic and reason would conclude that HS ball is NOT in critical path to DD div I goal.

Thanks for your feedback.

I wasn't going to comment on this but I am going to... I have heard you talk a lot about your thoughts and feelings and so on.

What does SHE want to do???

That is really what matters.

Not you or your development goals for her or your opinions of the HS coach and so on. Frankly playing a few months of HS ball isn't going to hurt her long term or kill her development or stop her getting recruited or better or anything like that. If she wants to play HS, then she should. Yes it is a massive time suck but you can save time by cutting out all the club activities and tournaments and others for a little bit as well - I would recommend that anyway - HS + a full travel training/tournament schedule is WAY too much.

The game HAS to be hers. One thing many players learn in HS is how to handle the situations they face all by themselves.

Note: It is a little different in our area - 16U/18U ball basically goes dark during HS here anyway, so if my DD didn't want to play HS ball she would probably go play something else for a season anyway. What older ball there is during that time is worse than HS.
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,312
113
Florida
The other major life lesson is that there's only so many hours in a day/week/year, so you have to prioritize, since HS ball competes with club ball both of which competes with grades. Since there's ZERO chance her HS coach will get her on a div I roster, but her club softball coach has probably developed more div I players in the area than any other coach (incl. free ride for freshman this year to DD #1 school),

Good to hear she is with a good travel coach.

Make sure you count the players who DON'T make it to college as well as the ones who do. Also take note of how many talented players who came to the club that were already developed.

At this point, you should not be shocked by how many players end up on D1 (and other level) rosters in spite of their coaches and how many clubs who claim players 'developed' who were developed elsewhere. The coach to college player relationship is not always causal. Talent wins out a lot - so does 'looking the part' (you also shouldn't be stunned by the number of 6' tall pitchers in college who suck at pitching but 'look' like they should be good).

Our travel program have put lots of girls into college over the years - some have gone above their level, some below. Playing HS ball - even bad HS ball - hasn't hurt any player get recruited in any way - in many cases it has helped (leadership roles, playing different positions, dealing with coaches and different people on their own, etc, etc).

logic and reason would conclude that HS ball is NOT in critical path to DD div I goal.

This is indeed true.

It is also maybe not a reason not to play HS ball if she wants to.

There are lots of reasons not to play HS (abusive coaches, no travel players, political BS and so on), but wanting a D1 scholarship probably isn't one. Thinking of it as a critical path project is nice - but maybe not entirely healthy (and I make a major portion of my living as a project manager so that hurts to write). Taking some time to play HS for what is normally 3-4 months isn't going to effect the D1 goal in any meaningful way. If she absolutely WANTS to choose club over HS - also not a problem - that really isn't going to make a major difference either.

Also is there really competitive 16U/18U to play during the HS season - in 14U there is because a lot of kids that age are not in high school?
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,854
113
This is exactly the mindset of myself, DD's mother, and her club coach; however, I can tell DD wants to play HS ball for the sake of *school pride*, etc. which none of us care about. ;-)

Thanks for your feedback!

I know. I gave you the answer you wanted. I have defended HS Coaches for a very long time here but it seems more popular and in line with membership to simply concede that HS Coaches suck. I am shocked that the TB Coach wants your dd to quit HS ball and almost as shocked to find out that there was gambling at Ricks.

A bunch of silly players of mine went toe to toe with our rival school tonight for our conference championship. They went into the 7th inning trailing 3-1. Some silly HS coach took one of these players yesterday and told her she is wasting her talent and could be so much more. In fact, this silly coach took this girl and threw her curve balls away and "rise balls" up and it and challenged her to the point that it got real serious. That girl hit a laser home run in her first at bat and then, hit a monster blast in the 7th with a runner on to tie the score. We won in the 8th on an in the park home run. Yup. two girls from the other team tried to catch a gap shot and ran into each other and our player never stopped running. The screams, the cheers, the tears, hugs, ... were something to see. This same team, that no one gave any credit to early this year, beat a nationally ranked team from a school two times our size. They aren't TB stars. They are hard chargers. Tonight, they are conference champs and are 17-6 on the year.

On another note, when you walk into our school by the gym, you walk past the trophy case. You can see all of these softballs in one case denoting perfect games and no hitters. You can see photos and certificates of all of the All State players in my school's history. I sometimes stop to look at some of those balls. My dd threw a few of those perfect games. Her picture and 1st Team All State Plaque are displayed for all to see. We produce a "record book." My dd is in just about every category for both pitching and hitting. In my dd's room is her Letter Jacket which she is so proud of. It has 4 All Conference First Team patches on it. It has 3 conference championship patches on it. It has 4 First Team All Area Patches on it. It has her All State Patches. Heck on one sleeve, it even has her All Area and All Conference Golf Patches on it. (She could have gone to college to play golf.) The yearbook, her senior year, had a special section that outlined her accomplishments. That is ... well here I go attempting to dissuade you and let your dd play HS ball.

Stick to you guns, there is nothing positive in HS ball.
 

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