Is H.S. ball worth the time?

Cannonball · May 30, 2018

vicimus said:
Again, don't mistake your area's softball accolades for our area's softball accolades which I described as very secondary to lacrosse which is played far more not only at my DD's school, but in our state in general.

By *fluffy*, I was just referring to the consensus of replies regarding the questionable accuracy of HS stats and accolades on softball profiles. Again, at least for my DD's situation, the HS coach certainly doesn't make them public even if she even keeps them.

Also, at least for this area, playing in a private school conference will only lead to a subjective *all conference* or *all metro* at best, if DD plays for one of the perennial A conference champions who get most of the press attention.

Kudos to your DD. If you're saying it was a factor that led to her successful D1 recruiting, then I stand corrected, but I didn't read that. If so, then there's 1 vote for HS accolades being a factor for D1 recruiting.

FWIW, *busting your rear* and *toughest player* are rewards in and of themselves; i.e. no accolades required. ;-)

While my dd was recruited to many D-Is and I documented in on this site, she decided to attend a D-II. At the time, that school was not very good but had a new coach who was the recruitment coordinator for a D-I school recruiting dd. They ended up beating that D-I and others while becoming the #1 ranked D-II.

marriard · May 30, 2018

vicimus said:
I appreciate your persistence to paint my responses as one of *those* parents, but the only *obsession* I have with D1 is enabling my DD to reach HER dream--NOT MINE! I couldn't care less if she plays softball in college at ANY level. We've asked her on MANY occasions is she sure she wants to commit to the work that's going to be required to make a D1 roster, because we'd be more than happy to just let her play HS ball and travel ball for the club down the street instead of over an hour away; however, she's persistent about pursuing HER dream. Again, NONE of us played either HS nor college ball, so it's HER dream--NOT OURS!

That's the bottom line.

I'm not trying to paint you as one of 'those parents' and whose dream it is or isn't or even whose obsession it is. Some of that is irrelevant.

However what I am pointing out is that you could absolutely be making the same mistakes as many who have come before you made - especially those who are going through the process for the first time.

And you are not alone - for many people it will be the only time they go through the process. For many like yourself, you didn't play HS or College sports so it is doubly new to you. People with a lot of experience in this process who will gain no advantage from sharing their experience with you are telling you things you should be looking out for and the danger signs they see. You want to support your daughter and while it is her journey, your support and some decisions is a major part of that happening.

Lastly - realize that the line "it is her dream" is at least 80% of the time not true (it is tough to tell your parents things you know will disappoint them) so saying that in anyway will always make people suspicious. It sounds like you are sure you are in the 20% - congrats! Just remember that 80% of the people you meet in the sport who tell you that are probably wrong.

vicimus · May 30, 2018

Again, congratulations to your DD!

That brings up another question I've always had though...why are there soooooo many D1 softball programs and so few D2 softball programs? Is it because a college can't be D1 in some sports but D2 in others?

Cannonball said:
While my dd was recruited to many D-Is and I documented in on this site, she decided to attend a D-II. At the time, that school was not very good but had a new coach who was the recruitment coordinator for a D-I school recruiting dd. They ended up beating that D-I and others while becoming the #1 ranked D-II.

vicimus · May 30, 2018

Again, I couldn't care less if she played softball in HS or college. Like I said, if it were up to me, she'd be playing lacrosse instead of softball, but our philosophy was to expose her to as many organized sports as possible as early as possible (3+), and let her pick her passion which we narrowed down to field hockey and softball, and finally made her choose one or the other this year, which is now softball.

The problem is there were very few sports which she didn't like to play (year round), so we have had to insist she FOCUS on HER dream of being a D1 player, and pick ONE sport to develop her skills now that she's in HS, since she must compete with others who are focused on one sport year round for very few D1 roster slots.

FWIW, I worked 2 jobs in high school and college which is why I can now afford to bankroll HER dream, but she will be the one that has to make hard decisions, since she is the one who has to put in the hard work.

Believe me, her chauffeur/trainer/mother and I would love to take the easy way out and have DD give up club ball, because it would save a helluva lot of time and money, but DD will not be able to say she wasn't FULLY supported by us in pursuing her dreams.

marriard said:
I'm not trying to paint you as one of 'those parents' and whose dream it is or isn't or even whose obsession it is. Some of that is irrelevant.

However what I am pointing out is that you could absolutely be making the same mistakes as many who have come before you made - especially those who are going through the process for the first time.

And you are not alone - for many people it will be the only time they go through the process. For many like yourself, you didn't play HS or College sports so it is doubly new to you. People with a lot of experience in this process who will gain no advantage from sharing their experience with you are telling you things you should be looking out for and the danger signs they see. You want to support your daughter and while it is her journey, your support and some decisions is a major part of that happening.

Lastly - realize that the line "it is her dream" is at least 80% of the time not true (it is tough to tell your parents things you know will disappoint them) so saying that in anyway will always make people suspicious. It sounds like you are sure you are in the 20% - congrats! Just remember that 80% of the people you meet in the sport who tell you that are probably wrong.

marriard · May 30, 2018

vicimus said:
Again, congratulations to your DD!

That brings up another question I've always had though...why are there soooooo many D1 softball programs and so few D2 softball programs? Is it because a college can't be D1 in some sports but D2 in others?

For 2017 there were:
345 D1 teams
290 D2 teams
416 D3 teams

(Source: NCAA® Ranking Summary)

Plus a few extra that didn't report stats. So I am not sure what you mean that there are so few D2 schools. Maybe in your area? (There are NO D3 schools in our area but lots of D2 and NAIA schools)

There are a few grandfathered sports that cross divisions in smaller sports, but for the most part all sports at a particular college are going to be in one particular division (there are minimum requirements for classification in # of sports offered).

Add in:

194 NAIA schools (http://www.naia.org/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=27900&ATCLID=205323230)
~470 NJCAA schools

So that is roughly 1715 softball teams - average roster size is probably around 15ish - so about 26,000 players.

FP26 · May 30, 2018

vicimus said:
Thanks for sharing your DD's HS experience.

That said, I was particularly focused on whether or not HS ball was worth it as relates to D1 recruiting. So, just curious, but did your DD go on to play college ball?

She plans to play in college, but she is not attending a D1 school. Her goal is to acquire a Doctorate in Physical Therapy and she made a short list of schools that offer the entire program at one school. Her goal was to acquire a guaranteed seat into the graduate program before starting her freshman year. I was not aware of this prior to the beginning of her school search, but apparently, it can be difficult to get into the graduate school of your choice for PT. So the guaranteed seats are challenging to acquire. She has accomplished that goal.

As far as the recruiting process, DD met with several coaches, was seen by many of them, and was offered spots at several schools. High school ball was not much of a factor in that process at all, with the exception of one school. Before DD was offered the guaranteed seat at the school she plans to attend this fall, her list of schools was a bit wider. She was actually very interested in one particular school. She spoke with the coach several times and this particular coach actually came to see one of her high school games. DD was concerned about this because she knew her high school team was not very good. She explained this to the coach, but the coach replied "I'm not there to see the team. I'm there to see you." DD's team ended up losing the game (by quite a bit). But after the game, the coach came over to speak with her and stated that she was very impressed with DD's attitude, leadership, and support of her teammates. She could tell that the other players looked towards her for guidance. A few days later she called and offered DD a spot. Unfortunately, they do not have the graduate program, so they were ultimately removed from DD's list.

My personal opinion is that unless you are at a major softball power, high school softball probably won't do much for recruiting. But I do agree with what some others have stated. Some of the higher level high school accolades (such as the All State team), couldn't hurt. And you need to make sure she is able to answer the question "why didn't you play high school softball?". Some college coaches may not care, but I know for a fact that some do. After meeting with a dozen or so college coaches over the past 2 years, one thing I can guarantee is that no two are looking for the exact same thing. They each have their own preferences and their own opinions. Choosing to skip high school softball will be viewed as a negative by some of those coaches. But then again, maybe it will all work out.

DRDRODD · May 30, 2018

I have been hesitant but I will share how my DD season went as far as recruiting goes.

My DD was fortunate and received a good bit of attention from colleges during her Freshman year.

During the season they had a total of 3 schools that came to watch either a practice or a game. One of the schools is an in state school and the other two are out of state. She was also contacted by two other in state schools by phone. All the schools are D1 schools with two of the three, that watched a game, finishing this season ranked in the top 15.

The schools that contacted her via phone found out about her by other high school coaches that she played against.

Two of the three coaches that saw her play (the top 15 schools) both said the same thing that they want to see what she will do against top competition and will be watching very closely this summer. The other out of state school was ready to make an offer according to her TB coach but we told him to let them know that DD didn’t know anything about the school and she wasn’t ready to commit to anything.

I believe it was a combination of a few things that sparked most of the attention to happen. She was asked to join a TB team which the coach/org apparently has a lot of connections. I say that because the three schools that visited, all of the communication went through him. I also believe that the recruiting rule change caused a good bit of the attention, especially for the school that was willing to make an offer. The other thing was that her season was heavily documented via social media which caught a lot traction.

DD school is nowhere near being a powerhouse or anything close to it. The in state school that is 1.5 hrs down the interstate never even heard of our town before making the trip there.

To me the biggest upside from this year is that all of her hard work didn’t go unnoticed because the attention she received means very little IMHO. She was faced with a lot of adversity this year and she overcame it. I can honestly say that she is a much better player and even better person for it. To be totally honest I had the same mind set as you do going into it. So coming from someone who’s DD received what you are wanting for your DD, I would have to agree with everyone else when they say that the life lessons learned from playing high school ball far exceed the attention she may or may not get.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

vicimus · May 31, 2018

Yeah, I guess in our area it's mostly D1 and D3 schools, and I've never even heard of most of the D2 schools and definitely not known for their computer science programs which is DD's primary college criteria which is probably why they are not on her radar. FWIW, the best computer science programs are actually D3.

marriard said:
For 2017 there were:
345 D1 teams
290 D2 teams
416 D3 teams

(Source: NCAA® Ranking Summary)

Plus a few extra that didn't report stats. So I am not sure what you mean that there are so few D2 schools. Maybe in your area? (There are NO D3 schools in our area but lots of D2 and NAIA schools)

There are a few grandfathered sports that cross divisions in smaller sports, but for the most part all sports at a particular college are going to be in one particular division (there are minimum requirements for classification in # of sports offered).

Add in:

194 NAIA schools (https://www.naia.org/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=27900&ATCLID=205323230)
~470 NJCAA schools

So that is roughly 1715 softball teams - average roster size is probably around 15ish - so about 26,000 players.

vicimus · May 31, 2018

Thanks for sharing and best wishes to your DD!

FP26 said:
She plans to play in college, but she is not attending a D1 school. Her goal is to acquire a Doctorate in Physical Therapy and she made a short list of schools that offer the entire program at one school. Her goal was to acquire a guaranteed seat into the graduate program before starting her freshman year. I was not aware of this prior to the beginning of her school search, but apparently, it can be difficult to get into the graduate school of your choice for PT. So the guaranteed seats are challenging to acquire. She has accomplished that goal.

As far as the recruiting process, DD met with several coaches, was seen by many of them, and was offered spots at several schools. High school ball was not much of a factor in that process at all, with the exception of one school. Before DD was offered the guaranteed seat at the school she plans to attend this fall, her list of schools was a bit wider. She was actually very interested in one particular school. She spoke with the coach several times and this particular coach actually came to see one of her high school games. DD was concerned about this because she knew her high school team was not very good. She explained this to the coach, but the coach replied "I'm not there to see the team. I'm there to see you." DD's team ended up losing the game (by quite a bit). But after the game, the coach came over to speak with her and stated that she was very impressed with DD's attitude, leadership, and support of her teammates. She could tell that the other players looked towards her for guidance. A few days later she called and offered DD a spot. Unfortunately, they do not have the graduate program, so they were ultimately removed from DD's list.

My personal opinion is that unless you are at a major softball power, high school softball probably won't do much for recruiting. But I do agree with what some others have stated. Some of the higher level high school accolades (such as the All State team), couldn't hurt. And you need to make sure she is able to answer the question "why didn't you play high school softball?". Some college coaches may not care, but I know for a fact that some do. After meeting with a dozen or so college coaches over the past 2 years, one thing I can guarantee is that no two are looking for the exact same thing. They each have their own preferences and their own opinions. Choosing to skip high school softball will be viewed as a negative by some of those coaches. But then again, maybe it will all work out.

vicimus · May 31, 2018

Thanks for sharing and congratulations on your DD's success!

DRDRODD said:
I have been hesitant but I will share how my DD season went as far as recruiting goes.

My DD was fortunate and received a good bit of attention from colleges during her Freshman year.

During the season they had a total of 3 schools that came to watch either a practice or a game. One of the schools is an in state school and the other two are out of state. She was also contacted by two other in state schools by phone. All the schools are D1 schools with two of the three, that watched a game, finishing this season ranked in the top 15.

The schools that contacted her via phone found out about her by other high school coaches that she played against.

Two of the three coaches that saw her play (the top 15 schools) both said the same thing that they want to see what she will do against top competition and will be watching very closely this summer. The other out of state school was ready to make an offer according to her TB coach but we told him to let them know that DD didn’t know anything about the school and she wasn’t ready to commit to anything.

I believe it was a combination of a few things that sparked most of the attention to happen. She was asked to join a TB team which the coach/org apparently has a lot of connections. I say that because the three schools that visited, all of the communication went through him. I also believe that the recruiting rule change caused a good bit of the attention, especially for the school that was willing to make an offer. The other thing was that her season was heavily documented via social media which caught a lot traction.

DD school is nowhere near being a powerhouse or anything close to it. The in state school that is 1.5 hrs down the interstate never even heard of our town before making the trip there.

To me the biggest upside from this year is that all of her hard work didn’t go unnoticed because the attention she received means very little IMHO. She was faced with a lot of adversity this year and she overcame it. I can honestly say that she is a much better player and even better person for it. To be totally honest I had the same mind set as you do going into it. So coming from someone who’s DD received what you are wanting for your DD, I would have to agree with everyone else when they say that the life lessons learned from playing high school ball far exceed the attention she may or may not get.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is H.S. ball worth the time?

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Cannonball

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marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am

vicimus

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marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am

FP26

DRDRODD

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