Ole Miss vs LSU Softball 2017 SEC Softball Championship
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The only difference is that Katlin Lee is certainly not benefiting from it. As stated she is technically not in compliance. If it were called she would resolve it immediately and move on. On the other hand the cheats like Barnhill and Carlson do it intentionally to gain an advantage apparently with the blessing of the SEC/NCAA. They are cheats, nothing more nothing less. If it were called Carlson would be just another pitcher and in the case of Barnhill done for the day. Again it is like comparing jay walkers to serial killers.
- Feb 7, 2013
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Who's the enabler now? She's illegal on every pitch. Cheating is cheating...if leaping wasn't an advantage, then why have pitchers drag their pivot foot along the ground?
Once again you have taken a page out of the skippie enabler play book. Claim that everyone is doing it, it is an epidemic, and the only solution is to dumb down the game and change the rules. Yes illegal is illegal and one should always strive to compete within the rules. But once again there is a huge difference between someone who happens to be illegal and someone who is a cheat and deliberately breaks the rules. If a kid has skill they can pitch legally and be successful. Only cheats and their enablers say it is a problem. I have fixed many a pitcher it is not that hard. If you look around there are plenty who can do it. If someone can't there are other ways for them to spend their weekends. The game does not need to accommodate them because they lack integrity or refuse to put in the work to do it right. Comparing a pitcher like Lee to cheat like Barnhill or Carlson is a truly desperate move.
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- Feb 7, 2013
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For at least the last 10 years that I have been involved in the game, illegal pitching (leaping and/or replanting) has been pretty common place in women's fastpitch. Below is a very small sample of some of the "cheaters". See a trend here? How this isn't considered pervasive at the highest levels of the women's game isn't looking close enough:
Dallas Escobedo (ASU WCWS Champs, NPF)
Kenzie Fowler (Arizona, WCWS, Gatorade POY(2x)
Sara Nevins (USF, Team USA)
Ally Carda (UCLA, PAC 12 POY (2x), Team USA)
Cat Osterman (University of Texas, Team USA, Gold & Silver Medals, NPF)
Sunderland-Finch (Cal, PAC 12)
Alexis Silkwood (MSU, all-time school records for wins)
Kaylee Carlson (Auburn, 25-3 record)
Kelly Barnhill (Florida, Team USA)
Kaitlin Lee (Ole' 'Miss, SEC Tourney MVP & Champ)
Nickie Blue (South Carolina, leap and replant)
Carley Hoover (LSU, leap)
Delaney Gorley (Florida, stride foot not on pitching plate)
Dallas Escobedo (ASU WCWS Champs, NPF)
Kenzie Fowler (Arizona, WCWS, Gatorade POY(2x)
Sara Nevins (USF, Team USA)
Ally Carda (UCLA, PAC 12 POY (2x), Team USA)
Cat Osterman (University of Texas, Team USA, Gold & Silver Medals, NPF)
Sunderland-Finch (Cal, PAC 12)
Alexis Silkwood (MSU, all-time school records for wins)
Kaylee Carlson (Auburn, 25-3 record)
Kelly Barnhill (Florida, Team USA)
Kaitlin Lee (Ole' 'Miss, SEC Tourney MVP & Champ)
Nickie Blue (South Carolina, leap and replant)
Carley Hoover (LSU, leap)
Delaney Gorley (Florida, stride foot not on pitching plate)
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I will type this very slowly so hopefully it will sink in:
There is a HUGE difference between a pitcher who happens to be illegal and one who is a blatant cheater. Comparing one with another is just a desperate attempt to promote a self serving fantasy of changing the rules of the game. Most have moved past enabling one persons poor behavior with that of another and agree that people should simply be held accountable. There are two distinct schools of thought. One wants the game to be played with integrity and for players to be held accountable. The other want to embrace and accommodate cheats. No different than society as a whole. Just keep it at 17 inches. No need to dumb down the game. No need to create a safe space for cheats.
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- Feb 7, 2013
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So we are to believe that these world-class pitchers don't know they are illegal and any leaping and replanting is by accident; on the other hand Barnhill is the blatant cheater because she intentionally leaps and replants. Curious how you know this as fact?
I think most reasonable people would surmise that if pitching is someone's profession and getting paid 100K in scholarships, NPF professional fees, etc. they would know if their pivot is dragging along the ground or not. They all know exactly what they are doing, as they do it every pitch. Anyone looking at the pitching plate can clearly see if the foot dragged or not. There are no repercussions to pitch illegally so they have no incentive to change...and unfortunately at this rate the cycle will continue for many years into the future.
I think most reasonable people would surmise that if pitching is someone's profession and getting paid 100K in scholarships, NPF professional fees, etc. they would know if their pivot is dragging along the ground or not. They all know exactly what they are doing, as they do it every pitch. Anyone looking at the pitching plate can clearly see if the foot dragged or not. There are no repercussions to pitch illegally so they have no incentive to change...and unfortunately at this rate the cycle will continue for many years into the future.
You seem to have pretty low bar for what you consider to be a world class pitcher. None the less I have personally spoken to 4 on the list, including Barnhill twice (counting only as 1) and many more not on the list regarding the exact subject. Kind of a thing with me to talk to pitchers about mechanics. On the subject of illegal mechanics I typically get one of two answers. The most common is that they were unaware. The second is they never get called for it. The former are simply ignorant of their mechanics, the latter are simply cheats. In the case of Barnhill I had a productive conversation with her after we hit her hard because she was tipping every pitch she threw. She knew she was illegal then and nothing has changed since. But as she said "I never get called for it."
Anyone with experience working with pitchers knows that body awareness is a challenge for even the most elite pitchers. Were it not they would never study video of their mechanics. However, their awareness of their mechanics is a moot point. What is relevant is their intent, or lack thereof. Once again you have made a vain attempt to obfuscate the actual issue and justify the actions of some cheats with the benign, although granted illegal actions of some others. Kind of like justifying the commission of a felony because of a misdemeanor. As long as few are illegal then it is fine for everyone to be illegal. That is pure nonsense. Once again:
There is a HUGE difference between a pitcher who happens to be illegal and one who is a blatant cheater.
In the case of Barnhill and Carlson only a fool would doubt their intent. They are cheats and the reason why the rule must be enforced. And a perfect example of why changing the rule is ludicrous. Looking at the terrible mechanics of Barnhill and Carlson, is that representative a the aspiration of a true athlete? Do we really want to dumb down the game to embrace cheats and those who will not put in the work to play within the rules? That seems to be what you advocate. Instead of embracing cheats, defending skippies, and promoting a fantasy that only the fringe seem to support maybe you should take the time to fix the mechanics of those you seek to enable?
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- Sep 29, 2014
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I think [MENTION=7875]Rocketech[/MENTION] point is at this level you don't HAPPEN to be illegal...you are illegal and you KNOW you are illegal you just don't care because as Barnhill told you "I never get called for it".
More to the point if it was called they would correct it granted the leapers could make easier corrections than the replanters and the hard part is I don't think Barnhill could make any correction at this point if she got called for several IPs in a row she would have to get pulled, I think someone like Katlin Lee probably could make the change just think hard about dragging her foot or push out not up some kind of cue that would probably work short term.
More to the point if it was called they would correct it granted the leapers could make easier corrections than the replanters and the hard part is I don't think Barnhill could make any correction at this point if she got called for several IPs in a row she would have to get pulled, I think someone like Katlin Lee probably could make the change just think hard about dragging her foot or push out not up some kind of cue that would probably work short term.
I do not think Carlson has a replant, she just pushes the envelope on landing outside the pitching lane. It is my understanding as long as her toe is touching the line she is legal. If her toe is outside the line, she is illegal. She can probably easily correct this on the fly if she was called on it.
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